Life after death?

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Life after death?

Post by Marc »

Okay, I know it's really unfair to start a topic like this and not share my views, but I'm really tired right now. Anyway, I wanted to hear what you guys think. I'll post my views when I get the chance.
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Post by 87th »

I'm one of those cynics who say that it was all just a romantic dream thought-up by some mournful widower who couldn't let go. Nice idea, but I can't believe it.
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Post by X_Lupin »

I am tired as well, but my views are probably the only ones here that will contradict anyone else's.

I am a religious person, I am not a sports fan about it, but I have faith in my God and everything. I feel that the human soul is made and is something that must persist, as it is not just matter that can decay, even people on their death beds or with mental illness still persist in the fact that inside, they still think like themselves.

Thinking everything is just some kind of chemical "coincidence" IMO, is erratic.

Thinking about it, no matter how deep in thought I go, there is no other coincidence but life after death.
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Post by Artemio »

I must start by saying I was raised as a Christian, but I've been agnostic for a long time now. I don't believe in the Church in reality, it is the human management of a Religion that will never suit me. I do believe Religion is a good way to establish some moral grounds and that it does a good work of settling a basic way for humans to respect other humans, being that we don't have a tendency as a race to care about people we don't know.

But back to the topic in question, I believe it doesn't exist if I think about it. But I must accept that I sometimes go "back to my roots" and like to believe it exists.. if it doesn't it is a beautiful and comforting thing to believe in order to give meaning and sense to our existence.

But rationally I believe that we are simply biological machines with a very complex structure that is unrepeatable, and a miracle in a non religious sense.

I might sound like a hypocrite sharing both views but I believe that contradiction is the basis of consciousness. Blame that on Hofstadter.
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Post by Henry Spencer »

I've been raised a Christian and for a long time now, I've gone to Church every Sunday of the year; so of course it is likely I will believe in an afterlife, I mean, I'd like there to be. I think there isn't any real way to prove whether there is or there isn't, so there's only what you think.

Regardless of that, I am open to new ideas from other beliefs, I'm no religious nut or anything, in fact, all of my friends are agnostic and atheists themselves, with the exception of one person who believes in a God and his own religion. It never comes in the way of our friendship, and we all have opened up about our feelings about all of that deep stuff you think about now and again.

Stephen Hawking is a mesmerising human being; his talks of trying to find out more about how the world began, and of all of the greatest philosophers and scientists throughout the ages is an amazing thing. He is a man, whom is restrained to a chair, but has all of this thinking going on in the inside, it's truly inspirational. He once appeared on Israeli television proclaiming that if there was a God; then God would have had to create all of the universe itself, with perfect precision, without any further interference from him, meaning he has no more powers inside any universe, since the laws of physics do not allow God to alter any set course, according to the very laws of science. I agree with Hawking on that, and it makes complete sense to me; God would have no further interference on our world, or any.

As I am a Roman Catholic, I am really contradicting my cause by saying that, but all the while, is it a crime to pick up various points from many beliefs? The only way to find out about the world, is to explore it; not seclude yourself to one way of thinking. You want to know, we all want to know, we'll never find out until death hits us, but we all wonder.

After I break away from my family, I shall convert to Buddhism; I'd really like to try out all of the religions in the world before my untimely death. I want to experiment, and see for myself which viewpoint I stand for. I've gone through a sort of cycle about it; I was once an atheist myself, before becoming agnostic minded, before being a Christian again. I enjoy my mother's Church; since it is Protestant. My Catholic Church on the other hand is cumbersome and boring, no life to it at all. Hate it. LOL.

All I can say is, I'm open minded to any train of thought, thanks to my brilliant array of friends and family, that encourages it really. I reckon in death we shall find happiness, yes. Whether it is as that portrait of paradise that so many imagine, I do not know.
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Post by Artemio »

You touch an important point Henry Spencer, as long as you don't feel you have the truth you'll go on learning. That is a good paradigm I believe.
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Post by Henry Spencer »

Yeah, thanks for expanding on what I said put into simple terms. I also think even when there is an answer, there is always doubt. That's the reason why we have scientists debunking one another's theories all of the time, like Hawking with Einstein recently. As well as the fact that there are so many conspiracy theories about, too. People doubt a lot. :smile:
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Post by Artemio »

In that sense I believe it is just as Lem described it in Non Serviam, we simply create models that go with our understanding of the Universe. They are useful for some time but that doesn't make them law, they are just closer to the truth with every iteration.
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Post by X_Lupin »

Snatcher wrote:I must start by saying I was raised as a Christian, but I've been agnostic for a long time now. I don't believe in the Church in reality, it is the human management of a Religion that will never suit me. I do believe Religion is a good way to establish some moral grounds and that it does a good work of settling a basic way for humans to respect other humans, being that we don't have a tendency as a race to care about people we don't know.
Nor do I believe in the Church as a government, which is why I broke away from Catholicism into, what I call a "standard" Christian. The management of something defined as being unconceivable by man by a sort of government, as seen in the Catholic church, I find to be a little too hard to swallow. Basically, them freely adding and subtracting from our philosophy was enough to upset me. Dismissing intelligent design from science then removing purgatory to make Catholicism more appealing to people in third-world countries just agitated me, I felt it was being run like a business.

My solution to this, however, was not to give up my beliefs, but rather just say "I disagree," and move to my own, self and Bible regulated beliefs.
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Post by shidoni »

Snatcher wrote: But rationally I believe that we are simply biological machines with a very complex structure that is unrepeatable, and a miracle in a non religious sense.
Hmm.

I love topics like these. Just as long as I tread not on some toes. I apologize if I anger anyone, I really do....

I don't believe in God as something akin to a human being, or any kind of iteration invoked by modern Christianity. I believe in the line that connects us. I believe in karma, and somewhat, the Brahma. I believe that the soul is immortal, that the body is an extension of that, as it repeats in a cycle. I believe in logic, in the witches I grew up around (lol), in that everything is in and of itself, in the double helix... I believe that we exist to grow, just like what we came from, and I believe that the future is seen in the past... I believe that we, as people, have the power over ourselves and our fate, but there are some things destined as either a repetition or integral lesson.... I also believe in the power of the mind over the body, and the body's power over the mind in its environment.

It's nothing I can really put a name to. I don't like walls in my beliefs. I have a couple cardinal rules though, that being treat all people equally, with respect for their every aspect, the ability to do whatever I want, save that it doesn't impose on anyone else doing the same, and something akin to the Middle Path, with an extra dose of humbleness to attain.

And to finish, the meaning of life is stimulation. LOL HAHAH, good Lord, what a child I am to be able to say that with such a confidence.
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Re: Life after death?

Post by Missing »

Osiris wrote:Okay, I know it's really unfair to start a topic like this and not share my views, but I'm really tired right now. Anyway, I wanted to hear what you guys think. I'll post my views when I get the chance.
I think no. I might be wrong. I might burn in hell. I try not to care.
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Post by shidoni »

Oi, Osiris... You never did tell us what you think of the whole matter. I don't think anyone here is going to step on you for it, and frankly, I'm actually interested to see what you think. I won't spear you if you don't though, the basis of your being isn't really something you normally want people to break down, is it...
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Post by ratperson665 »

I'm an atheist, so of course I don't believe in the after-life. I don't even like the idea. I hope that when I die I die because accepting the inevitable as just another necessary fact of life, really makes me realize how lucky I am to be here in the first place.

I like to think of myslef as 100% mortal because I appreciate the time I do have much more. If I believe in the after-life, that I will continue to exist in my own mind, that I will remain a self aware entity, I think that takes away from (what I think
) is the whole point of life. Live while you can, because blink and you die, so no, I personally think (and hope) that I won't see a light, or a bunch of flames when I kick the bucket. This isn't my full view, but I'm beat right now so I'll redo this post tomorrow.
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Post by shidoni »

lol, that's alright... That's a very christian view of the afterlife... I think... if there's a consistant thought in any major religion at all, is that the soul is immortal, what do you guys think?
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Post by Shadovski »

shidoni wrote:lol, that's alright... That's a very christian view of the afterlife... I think... if there's a consistant thought in any major religion at all, is that the soul is immortal, what do you guys think?
I think people need hope. perspective of death is quite sad so lot of people prefer to believe that there will be something better after death and that they won't vanish totally. However I don't believe in afterlife or reincarnation. Idea of eternal lining (in any kind of form material spiritual) is a bit creepy due to fact I believe that eternal happiness can't be achieved.
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Post by shidoni »

Shadovski wrote:
shidoni wrote:lol, that's alright... That's a very christian view of the afterlife... I think... if there's a consistant thought in any major religion at all, is that the soul is immortal, what do you guys think?
I think people need hope. perspective of death is quite sad so lot of people prefer to believe that there will be something better after death and that they won't vanish totally. However I don't believe in afterlife or reincarnation. Idea of eternal lining (in any kind of form material spiritual) is a bit creepy due to fact I believe that eternal happiness can't be achieved.
Death embodies the root of all human fear; the fear of the unknown, so yes, I agree, that perspective is integral... I must say, I do believe in a sort of reincarnation, I think the "soul" flatly contradicts the "nothing lasts forever" rule, as contradictions tend to make up the dynamism of alot of things here. I don't think we're to aim for the goal of eternal happiness though, lol.... I'm thinking more of contentment, which.... well, may be reached by simply existing.
I was gonna ask something, but now I forgot. Hmm.
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Post by Synthoid »

I see myself as more of a secular humanist, I believe that we're in control of our own lives and that we shouldn't be so reliant on a "supreme being" that may or may not exist. Faith doesn't solve problems or get you through bad situations, but rather our determination and strength of will. As for the afterlife, I think it's more feasible to believe in reincarnation, a contradiction I know. Look at it like this, let's say for the sake of this discussion, that there's a heaven-esque afterlife. All of our wants and desires are fulfilled. After ten years, you'll have done a fair bit, after a hundred years, you'll have tasted just about everything there is to savour, after a thousand years, you'll have probably done everything possible. But compared to an eternity, that thousand years is such a miniscule space of time. Just think, you'll be forced to exist in this realm or dimension for as long as you live and breathe. It would be a wonderful place to be at first, but ultimately would become a living hell.

Hence why I'm of the pursuasion that reincarnation is a much more pleasant 'afterlife' to imagine. Despite my own personal beliefs on religion, I'm rather fond of the ideals of Hinduism and Buddhism, both of which believe in the idea of reincarnation, albeit in slightly different ways. How we act in our current life will reflect upon what we return as in our next. It's a much nicer way of looking at what happens after we die, it's the final question in life - What happens after I die? Where will I go? Is there life after death? Unfortunately, you have to actually die in order to find the answers you're looking for, the ultimate boundary we have to cross. Either we find ourselves reincarnated in a different body, or we simply cease to exist. I don't believe in any kind of realm that we enter after we die.

As for religion itself, I agree with what Snatcher said about the human management of religion, or rather, organised religion. Belief and faith should be something on an individual, rather than social level. A personal and unique relationship between an individual and their god, not some group meeting.

I apologise if any of my words may have offended anyone.
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Post by Henry Spencer »

Not at all, I very much doubt your beliefs would offend, anybody, Synthoid. Everybody views things differently, so there's no need to be concerned or anything. Besides, I like your theory a lot! Buddhism is a religion I've been very interested in for a long time, and may convert to in the near future, actually. Seems like a very tranquil lifestyle, that I'd love. I mean, what's wrong with a religion that just requires your happiness and peace with oneself? Sounds like a great religion. :grin:
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Post by 87th »

I like the sound of Buddhism, but I think there's a difference between following a religion's guidelines and believing in it. I'm not an atheist because I'm lazy, but because I don't think any of the holy books were based on truth.
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Post by shidoni »

Seeing everyone's reactions to actually displaying this stuff makes me realize how much people never talk about it, and how much they need to. People lack the confidence to really question these things, that's the problem. They put their faith into something they grow up thinking is right for them, suits them.... they become afraid to question what they've held as being absolute, without taint of "the unknown".

Man is the "supreme being", or rather what he is a part of. Like a limb, in unity.... And man needs conflict, eh. Everything must be balanced.

I loved what I studied about Buddhism... Gautama was an observer... Although, I don't quite adhere to his abhorring physical posessions. I think that's another balance thing. The Eight-Fold Path is something to build your mind around.

I don't think there is anything existing in the world that is old enough to hold truth (i.e., close enough to the root). Of course, right and wrong is here...
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Post by The Prince II »

I'd like to think there was a life after death. Hell, I'd love there to be one. But the chances of it being true are low.
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Post by RandommodnaR »

X_Lupin wrote:I feel that the human soul is made and is something that must persist, as it is not just matter that can decay, even people on their death beds or with mental illness still persist in the fact that inside, they still think like themselves.
Thinking everything is just some kind of chemical "coincidence" IMO, is erratic.
I agree with you there. I also believe in something untangible, that gave the world a little push. But I trust the scientists about the theory of evolution. I'm also a reincarnationist.
The world is managed by Karma, and that ethereal concept drives the effects of our actions, and it affects our future reincarnations. This effect of karma is "samsara" (for those who don't know).

------------
EDIT: So most of us, in our personal ways, believe in reincarnation? Huh, suddenly i don't feel so alone in the subject. Around me, EVERYBODY is a freaking religious zealot.
One time i passed in front of an evangelist church, and they tried to convert me. I told them "i'm a reincarnationist." They chased me until the bus stop trying to convince me that (quote) "You are possesed by Beelzebub, you've become one of his appendages to corrupt the earth!" ¬¬
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shidoni
Major
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:39 pm
Kojima games owned: Zone of The Enders
Anubis: Zone of The Enders
Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Policenauts (PS)
Location: Dark Side of the Moon

Post by shidoni »

RandommodnaR wrote:"You are possesed by Beelzebub, you've become one of his appendages to corrupt the earth!" ¬¬
That's somewhat ironic, using a concept in line with things they don't even---
Ugh. nevermind.
Everyone's splaying themselves like chickens on a chopping table, that's nice to see, I guess hah~ It's good we're so comfortable here.
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Synthoid
J.U.N.K.E.R.
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:11 pm

Post by Synthoid »

This is off topic for a sec, but I love your signature RandommodnaR.

"They get CAN-CER."
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ratperson665
Captain
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:12 pm
Favorite Game: Suikoden 2
Kojima games owned: Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons Of liberty
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
Metal Gear Acid
Snatcher(Sega CD)
Policenauts(PSX)
Metal Gear(Subsistence Version)
Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake(Subsistence Version)
Location: Mercer Island, WA, USA

Post by ratperson665 »

Who or what is Beelzebub?
"Don't worry I got an idea. An Idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was taking about."-Peter Griffin
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