The home theater thread

Discussion for anything non-gaming.
Marc
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The home theater thread

Post by Marc »

I'm in the process of choosing a new TV and receiver, and I thought we could share experiences here. Anyone else bought new gear lately? Anyone actively looking right now?

By the way, don't you just love how almost every user review ends with "Absolutely the best TV out there today." :roll:

Does anyone find the glass trim on some XBRs just sickly? I dunno, just something about that glass doesn't do it for me...

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Post by shidoni »

I'm actually currently looking for a second-hand TV at my local Salvation Army.







.... yeeeaaaah..... Different galaxy here, I think...
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Post by Artemio »

I am more of a Tube guy. Yes, I still prefer CRT but I believe LCD and Plasma are really getting there.

Indeed reviews are not the best idea I guess. The only real solution is to go out there and test the tv with the source material you plan to use. This is particularly true if you still watch SD stuff (480i or 480p) and don't own a really good upscaling/deinterlacing DVD player. If you watch SD tv, it is even more important that you try it out at the store and see if you like what it displays.

Of course they look great with HD (and sometimes they don't when it is not their native resolution), but you should try out SD material and if possible use a test disc to figure out if black levels and colors are decently displayed on the set. I believe that if you are going to play a for a premium TV set you should try and get the best out of it.

As mentioned above the main problems, which may or not concern to you since most people in the world just want them for fashion or because they are slim, are:

- Native resolution: You want to get a set that has a native resolution that matches the material that you plan to watch the most. The big majority of the sets on the market are 1080p, but there are still some 720p sets out there. TV manufacturers don't spend big money here, they get away with what is possible at price ranges. This is specially true with 480i/48p signals, since those need to be deinterlaced first. A good stand alone deinterlacer/scaler costs around 1500 USD nowadays, so you can guess that a Tv around that price has an under performing one.

- Refresh rate Different source material has different frame rates. And a TV is only capable to give it's best, without serious processing power, at the native refresh rate(s). Movies are usually 24 frames per second, SD NTSC is at 59.94 fields (which amounts to 29.97 frames per second and it needs to be converted together 30 or 60 for a progressive display) or 50/25 for PAL. HD signals are either 30 or 60 fields or frames per second, so they match well, unless they are from cinema..in which case they are mostly 24 fps.This is true for Blu ray and HD-DVD. If the frame rate of the material does not match the TV set, there needs to be a conversion. Thankfully there are now 120 Hz sets on the market that can comply to all the frame rates.

- Black Levels, Colors and latency Although as of late they have markedly improved in these areas, Colors are the ones that they do the best, but black levels are not as good yet. You usually get grays or browns, and the dynamic range is not as good. This is again testable on site before buying. With latency I refer to the time it takes a single pixel on the TV to change form black to white.Some tvs are really slow and you can notice it when changing from dark to shiny scenes or vice versa. You can notice a "ghost" slowly dissolving on those sets.

Just to be clear, I am not saying the technology is bad, Just advising on what to look for so you are not disappointed and make the best out of your money.

Audio for a home theater is also very rewarding, but unfortunately those all in a box sets have flooded the market and the prices for good equipment have raised. Maybe you don't care about quality in that area, but I believe it is 50% of the experience, specially with the PCM or lossless formats on HD discs, and very enjoyable with music. I have more experience on that field since I have invested more there, so if anyone wants advise on getting more out of their audio system I probably can help.
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Post by shidoni »

HOLY CHRIST ON A BICICLE
BICKILCE
...biscicle.... biklickle....
bisickal....


Lookit this shit, you made me forget how to spell! What the fuck!




...Now I wanna look at your action figures lol... I recognize alot of them, but... Gah, need to pick at things overwhelming....!



Christ, that is nice....
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Post by Nexus_6 »

I wish I had an HD television. My TV is a 20in flat screen CRT, with Component (which I use the most), and S-Video inputs that displays 480i. The screen sometimes is wavy on the sides while playing games, which can be annoying if you don't try to ignore it. Thats about all I could afford at the time. Maybe I'll be able to afford a better TV after I finish college.

I actually do have surround sound speakers though. I bought an adapter so that I could hook my 5.1 speaker system up to my DVD player (or PS2) without a receiver (which basically means its only stereo surround). I usually don't have all the speakers hooked up at the same time though as I use the 2 main speakers and the sub woofer for my PC (aka 2.1).
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Post by 87th »

:shock:
Artemio- I want to warn you. I may rob your house.

At the moment, I have a 12-year old 20" Sony SDTV in my living room (connected to a Virgin Digital box, NTSC/JP PS3, PAL PS2 and Wii which are all connected to a 10-year old Sony stereo), and a terrible 12" Technosonic TV/DVD in my room (connected to a PAL PS2, MegaDrive (with Mega CD) and a Freeview box). It's a lot worse than the 42" Sony HDTV with 5.1 Dolby Surround at my parents' house that I had my PS3 attached to in Summer. :(

I'm planning to get an HDTV when I can afford one. I spied a 50" thing for £500 in Tesco today, but it didn't list any resolutions on it, so I'm unsure about it.
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Post by shidoni »

87th wrote::shock:
Artemio- I want to warn you.
Well, you're not off to a good start, hahahaha~
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MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
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MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
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Post by 87th »

I'm afraid of what I might become. :cry:
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Post by Synthoid »

I think there's a television in there somewhere.
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Post by shidoni »

Synthoid wrote:I think there's a television in there somewhere.

Maybe it's not even his room. Maybe it's his fucking kitchen. It doesn't take alot of imagination to see an oven where that supposed "Television" is. Meaning his house is packed, c'mon 87th, you and me raid that shit comprende!!
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Post by Synthoid »

Don't I get a say in this expedition to Artemio's mansion?
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Post by Artemio »

It is not as much as it seems though...

Sorry about the blurry pic, I'll try to get a sharper one if you will so you can try and identify the stuff. I didn't notice the pic was that bad.

And yes it is a TV, a Loewe Aconda 38" 1080i @ 100 Hz CRT. It is around 5 or 6 years old, and only does component, s-video and composite (No HDMI or 720p) but I love the colors and blacks on the thing.

The rest of the setup I've been building over the years, going though several upgrades. Currently it is a Yamaha RX-V1700, Paradigm Studio 60's v2, B&W LCR 600 center, B&W SR3 600 surrounds (not shown), Velodyne VRP-1000 sub and a BFD 1124 (for Subwoofer room equalization). I am quite happy with them for now although the room acoustics don't help for critical music listening.

And it is not a Mansion =P, that's my bedroom where I spend most of the time.

Most of the stuff I got after graduating from college.. I have pics from the evolution through those 8 years or so I've been into HD and Hi-fi audio, maybe I'll post how it all started so you can laugh at the original setup.

But seriously, if someone is interested in that kind of stuff and wants some assistance from someone that has walked part of the path, with mistakes and some good choices, please ask. I'd be glad to help. (For instance, why is my center channel off center? that kind of thing to achieve the best results from a specific setup)
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MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
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MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
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Post by 87th »

I'm quite curious as to where you got Ghost In The Shell dog biscuits? That's some pretty obscure merchandising.
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Post by Artemio »

87th wrote:I'm quite curious as to where you got Ghost In The Shell dog biscuits? That's some pretty obscure merchandising.
Yes indeed. I am a bigger Ghost in the Shell fan than most other things, that is why.

I found them while at Roppongi Hills, just after meeting Kojima at Konami's office in that building we went to the top floor for the view. There was a omiyage shop there, which had the biscuit boxes there. I was blown away by the fact and immediately bought one. I later found out that they were for sale there because Oshii had filmed the promotional film for the building (a great DVD that shows incredible aerial views of Tokyou if you have the opportunity to watch it).

The box is identical to those shown on the movies, except for the picture on the back, and certain line of text that I couldn't read at the time. I brought them home, and fearing for the box integrity I opened it very carefully and removed the individually packaged biscuits. I resealed it without much trouble and it appears to be immaculate. As a fun fact, I left the biscuits on my night table. The next day I came home and found my brother eating them. I told him they were dog biscuits, probably intended as treats.. but he said they tasted like vanilla and offered me one. They were actually good. Years later I read the box and it reads clearly, in Japanese, "This is not dog food" and "Vanilla milk cookies".

Glad to see a fellow Ghost in the Shell fan, you are the second person I know who has identified it at all.
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Post by Henry Spencer »

There are Trigun figurines available? :???:

That's new to me, but yeah, superb collection, one of the best I've ever seen.
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Post by shidoni »

^Indeed there are, but that particular Vash is from McFarlane's toy line....
Synthoid wrote:Don't I get a say in this expedition to Artemio's mansion?
Not when it comes to that wooden moai.
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MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
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MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
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MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

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Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
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ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
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BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
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Post by 87th »

Snatcher wrote:Glad to see a fellow Ghost in the Shell fan, you are the second person I know who has identified it at all.
I wouldn't say I was a hardcore fan, but I really like both films. I should probably get round to watching Stand Alone Complex, as the first two series' are in my living room.

I always paid attention to Batou's dog after I heard that he was Oshii's way of representing himself in his work. My sister owns a Beagle that looks quite like him, actually.
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Post by X_Lupin »

With black Friday rolling in, We are going to be buying a very large LCD HDTV to hook the PSTriple to.

I really don't know where to go or what to get, so your guys' advice would be really helpful.

I'm thinking 1080p 47-63"
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Post by shidoni »

Snatcher wrote:(For instance, why is my center channel off center? that kind of thing to achieve the best results from a specific setup)
Y'know, I noticed that when I first saw it, I was like... This guy is so anal about everything else, but why...?
lol@ the biscuits. Did you have to escape people shooting at you to get them? ahah....hah.... ehh.
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Post by Artemio »

shidoni wrote:Not when it comes to that wooden moai.
That wooden Moai was carved on Easter Island at my request. I owe it to my brother who actually encouraged me to ask for it, since I couldn't find a Moai like that, just full body ones.

There is this musical group on Easter Island called Matato'a, who's bassist we meet while eating at a restaurant with a German girl who knew him. We later met the whole band and had a few beers (Coronas), and Teave mentioned he carved wood. I had taken a picture of a Moai that I liked very much, and showed it to him on my brother's CLIE... He said he could carve it for me. The picture in question is now adorning the wikipedia entry for Moai, (the third picture) and I must admit I am quite proud of it since it was selected as picture of the day once and asked out for printing it on a book.
87th wrote:I wouldn't say I was a hardcore fan, but I really like both films. I should probably get round to watching Stand Alone Complex, as the first two series' are in my living room.

I always paid attention to Batou's dog after I heard that he was Oshii's way of representing himself in his work. My sister owns a Beagle that looks quite like him, actually.
I enjoy the movies a lot as well. I must say that I rank them on my top three movies, up there with Blade Runner. I believe you will enjoy the Stand Alone Complex series, it is really well written and very truthful to the Manga and the movies, as best as possible I believe. Of course you will find it somewhat odd if you haven't read the Manga, since Oshii framed just what was unnecessary for the movies and left out some stuff. But I feel it is worth your time. Incredible production values as well.
X_Lupin wrote:I really don't know where to go or what to get, so your guys' advice would be really helpful.

I'm thinking 1080p 47-63"
As I mentioned above, just go there and give them a run. If you like what you see, get it if it is a nice price. Just remember to try and check out material you know well and test it out with SD if you are planning to view SD material (I believe we all still do)
shidoni wrote:Y'know, I noticed that when I first saw it, I was like... This guy is so anal about everything else, but why...?
lol@ the biscuits. Did you have to escape people shooting at you to get them? ahah....hah.... ehh.
Well, it is a matter that made me uncomfortable for quite some time. It is of course because the audio quality and calibration came out above symmetry. The speaker in question is an B&W LCR 600, as you can judge from the picture it has two drivers and a tweeter. Most central channels use both drivers for all frequencies below those managed by the tweeter, so in realty they are two way speakers that use the extra driver for distribution over a wider axis on a room, so you don't need to be centered. This particular speaker is regularly used for music, and hence is of better quality than most center speakers that are mainly targeted for just voice. I upgraded to it since I listen to music in SACD or DVD-A frequently, and my Polk center channel was really underperforming when it came to acoustic guitar, cello and other stuff.

Since it is in reality a three way speaker, named LCR since it can be used in the three frontal positions on a system with music as a main application, the human voices were positioned a little bit to the right in movie soundtracks. This is a result of the tweeter and mids driver being position on the right side of it when placed horizontally. I spent considerable time tuning the system for a correct center image, achieved with the help of an SPL meter (used to determine volume from a position) and some DVD-A and DVDs that have test tones to calibrate the balance between the center channel and front speakers. Hence, the center channel's position is off center (and deep marks were placed on that position to never go through the process again).
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Post by Marc »

Impressive stuff, Artemio! As I've said before, I hope you're never robbed or have a fire, my friend. And if you do, at least you have photos so the insurance company will believe you!
X_Lupin wrote:With black Friday rolling in, We are going to be buying a very large LCD HDTV to hook the PSTriple to.

I really don't know where to go or what to get, so your guys' advice would be really helpful.

I'm thinking 1080p 47-63"
I really would recommend against impulse TV buying. Try to do as much research as possible before you make a decision. For instance, you could get a better picture from a 720p plasma TV, for less money too! But if you're definitely set on LCD, the Sony XBR4 and XBR5 currently have the best picture, in my opinion. Despite my disparaging its looks in the first post, it's probably what I'm going to get myself in the next month or so.

As for where to go, believe it or not some brick and mortar stores have lower customer satisfaction ratings than some online retailers. If you have the extra money and prefer the ability to exchange something hassle-free if you buy it and don't like it, then I would say go with an electronics store. But if you'd rather save money and know that is definitely the set you want, then go with an online retailer. It just means you'll probably have to deal with the manufacturer instead if there's a problem.
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Post by epitaph »

[...] the Sony XBR4 and XBR5 currently have the best picture, in my opinion [...]
Aren't Sony's LCDs OEM'd by Samsung? That's what I've heard anyway. Wouldn't it be cheaper to go to them if that's the case?

Now that I hold a decent paying job, I'll probably get an LCD (that's able to display 1080p) in a few months. Haven't really taken a look at what's available though.
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Post by Marc »

epitaph wrote:
[...] the Sony XBR4 and XBR5 currently have the best picture, in my opinion [...]
Aren't Sony's LCDs OEM'd by Samsung? That's what I've heard anyway. Wouldn't it be cheaper to go to them if that's the case?
I think you might be thinking of the joint-venture glass planel factory they recently set up. Unless there's some other factory they have. But the actual picture qualities and setting options aren't the same. Also, the reason I'm leaning towards the Sony is because the comparable Samsung LCD has a really glossy screen despite being an LCD, which won't do me if I sit it in the living room.
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Post by 87th »

Snatcher wrote: I enjoy the movies a lot as well. I must say that I rank them on my top three movies, up there with Blade Runner. I believe you will enjoy the Stand Alone Complex series, it is really well written and very truthful to the Manga and the movies, as best as possible I believe. Of course you will find it somewhat odd if you haven't read the Manga, since Oshii framed just what was unnecessary for the movies and left out some stuff. But I feel it is worth your time. Incredible production values as well.
Should I try the Manga first, then? I've been meaning to get into a new series since I finished the 5-year-process of buying all of DragonBall in June. I tried the Manga adaptation of "Neon Genesis Evangellion", but it was a little to similar to the Anime for me to bother with.
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Post by Artemio »

87th wrote:
Snatcher wrote:Should I try the Manga first, then? I've been meaning to get into a new series since I finished the 5-year-process of buying all of DragonBall in June. I tried the Manga adaptation of "Neon Genesis Evangellion", but it was a little to similar to the Anime for me to bother with.
Not really, just keep in mind that the character changes you'll notice (personalities) are in reality the original ones. And let them grown in you. You can go straight into SAC without any prior knowledge.
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