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Feature requests for future versions
http://forums.junkerhq.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2552
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Author:  HellHammer [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Or Marc could do a re-write in 2042 where I can reach through my monitor and choke Elrich2k3 unconscious.



...And my vote is for the SEGA Saturn version, as well!

Author:  Spike [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

I knew I heard about the tale of Urashima Tarô before : they referrenced it in Cowboy Bebop (Session #18, Speak like a child).

Marc wrote:
Elrich2k3 wrote:
How about a translation of Policenauts?
Marc wrote:
To give you some quick replies, I used the internet terms because I'm imagining them as having fully migrated into mainstream speech by 2040
Then make your own game that takes place in 2040, and put stupid internet dialect in it. I didn't wait fifteen years to play your imagination, I waited fifteen years to play a game written by Hideo Kojima.

Well, a localized work is a marriage between the original writer and the translator. As I was unable to consult with the original writer, I had to go with how I felt. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it.
(Note : I still haven't played to the patched Policenauts)

First of all, I'd like to reiterate my thanks to Marc : without him, playing Policenauts in English would never have been possible.

Secondly, I won't be as harsh as Elrich2k3 (from what I could gather, it concerns two lines in the game, come on !), but I guess using internet terms is quite a stretch from Kojima's intent (with all due respect to you, Marc). I mean, if the literal translation of these lines was too poor, wouldn't it have been more faithful to the letter to use American idioms/slang from the 90s or something inspired by Lethal Weapon (for example) ? If Kojima had originally written the game in English (during the 90s), he probably would have been more enclined to use terms like that, I suppose.

Just my two cents. :wink:

P.S. Would someone mind telling me the origin of And God said "let there be win" :?

Author:  cacetete [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

johnnythewolf wrote:
Artemio wrote:
From Wikipedia:
Quote:
... Urashima Tarō...


Thanks. So it's basically the japanese equivalent of Pandora's box. Considering Ed's nationality, maybe a reference to Pandora would have been a bit more appropriate. But anyway...


tokugawa calls johnatan urashima before ed, but it is actually refering to the fact the johnatan is still young for being frozen in space while all the other guys became old: urashima taro spent some days in the ocean and when he returned home everyone was old and gone and he was still young. or something like that.

Author:  Takumi [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Well done on the patch guys and to everyone involved. Epic performance. :D I see some people are mentioning about the use of internet slang. I'm not sure if I missed it or just that it doesn't even feel like internet language anymore to me. Can somebody let me know what the lines were? In spoiler tags of course.

If you guys decide to do another version i reckon it should be the pc98 or saturn version. pc98 cause it looks the most different and saturn cause it's apparently the best version? After reading the pc98 policenauts thread on here by Marc(i think) I see it has a lot more dialogue which is cool, shame it'd be a hassle to start translating again. Be cool if some interviews off the pilot disc/private collection could be translated. I'd be willing to capture them and put in the subtitles if someone translated them. That's just a thought though. Doing one version of the game was more than anyone could ever have asked for. Once again thank you for your efforts. Arigatou!

Author:  Henry Spencer [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Honestly, all these complaints about this slang is just silly. It's sparsely in the game, and it's not like Jonathan is saying "O-M-G-W-T-F?" to the plot twists, it's just him saying things that would be perhaps standard to the world that these characters live in. I dunno, it didn't bother me at all, it's actually nice to read a bit of dialogue given a bit of life, instead of being a limb, lifeless sentence with a lack of any real prose.

Author:  Snatcher42 [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

^ I agree. Not to keep going on about it, but I'm curious - what would a literal translation of those few lines have been?

Author:  johnnythewolf [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

cacetete wrote:
tokugawa calls johnatan urashima before ed, but it is actually refering to the fact the johnatan is still young for being frozen in space while all the other guys became old: urashima taro spent some days in the ocean and when he returned home everyone was old and gone and he was still young. or something like that.


Fitting for Tokugawa, but, personally, I would have settled for a Buck Rodgers reference for Ed.

Wikipedia wrote:
The new series centered on Captain William Anthony "Buck" Rogers, played by Gil Gerard, a NASA pilot who commands Ranger 3, a space shuttle that is launched in May 1987. Due to a life support malfunction, Buck is accidentally frozen for 504 years before the derelict spacecraft is discovered in the year 2491. The combination of gases that froze his body coincidentally comes close to the formula commonly used in the 25th Century for cryopreservation, and his rescuers are able to revive him. He learns that civilization on Earth was rebuilt following a devastating nuclear war on November 22, 1987, and is now under the protection of the Earth Defense Directorate.


Sounds familiar?

Author:  Snatcher42 [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Rip Van Winkle?

Or how about Dave Lister? :P

Author:  Frogacuda [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Rip Van Winkle woke up old.

I have the perfect Western equivalent: Encino Man

Author:  Spike [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

johnnythewolf wrote:
I would have settled for a Buck Rodgers reference for Ed.

Wikipedia wrote:
The new series centered on Captain William Anthony "Buck" Rogers, played by Gil Gerard, a NASA pilot who commands Ranger 3, a space shuttle that is launched in May 1987. Due to a life support malfunction, Buck is accidentally frozen for 504 years before the derelict spacecraft is discovered in the year 2491. The combination of gases that froze his body coincidentally comes close to the formula commonly used in the 25th Century for cryopreservation, and his rescuers are able to revive him. He learns that civilization on Earth was rebuilt following a devastating nuclear war on November 22, 1987, and is now under the protection of the Earth Defense Directorate.


Sounds familiar?
Well, I think it would be a bit too heavy-handed.

Ed : Do you know your life is pretty similar to the life of a science fiction character ?
Jonathan : Yeah. And they say Hideo Kojima is a pretty imaginative guy.

For the French translation, the translator could perhaps change the reference to Hibernatus to make accessible to the French players.

Author:  cacetete [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

in daniel caetanos snatcher translation there are FUDEBAS in the outher heaven bar.

Author:  Marc [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

johnnythewolf wrote:
Artemio wrote:
From Wikipedia:
Quote:
... Urashima Tarō...


Thanks. So it's basically the japanese equivalent of Pandora's box. Considering Ed's nationality, maybe a reference to Pandora would have been a bit more appropriate. But anyway...


To add to the feeling of a strong presence of Japanese culture on the colony, I left it as is -- well, actually, I had Ed flub it as "Uroshami Tora" to demonstrate some Westerners' unfamiliarity with Japanese culture (Kojima talks about both of these in one of the strategy guides, and I thought this would be a good way to incorporate them into the game).

Snatcher42 wrote:
^ I agree. Not to keep going on about it, but I'm curious - what would a literal translation of those few lines have been?


In the Tokugawa lobby:

"That's right."

In the BCCH lobby:

"You suck at hitting on women."

Chris' office in Act 2:

"Alright! We can finally load it."

Author:  Spike [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Marc wrote:
Snatcher42 wrote:
^ I agree. Not to keep going on about it, but I'm curious - what would a literal translation of those few lines have been?


In the Tokugawa lobby:

"That's right."

In the BCCH lobby:

"You suck at hitting on women."

Chris' office in Act 2:

"Alright! We can finally load it."
That's quite bland.

Anyway, for the translation of the line "Look at that ass. I would eat anything off that ass." ( :lol: ), I suggest to the French translator to quote one of Jean-Pierre Marielle's lines from Les galettes de Pont-Aven :

"Ah, comme il est beau !... On dirait un Courbet, dis donc !"

"Ahhhhh oui, un cul de bonne femme. Ah, il est magnifique ! Je vais le peindre... en vert, en bleu, en rouge, en jaune."

"Ah, nom de Dieu de bordel de merde ! Ah, tu me rends dingue, tu me rends fou, ah, j'suis fou ! Ah ton cul, ton cul c'est mon génie !"

Author:  BugzInDaCode [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Just a quick report on some time inconsistencies I Noticed while playing.

Spoiler:
At the beginning of the game in Jonathan's office when you look at the article about his rescue from the survival pod, it refers to the article being written 3 years ago and 25 years after his accident. If his accident happened in 2013 and the game takes place in 2040, shouldn't that be 2 years. The next one I noticed is while your in the lunar facility talking to Salvatore. He says man first walked on the moon 70 years ago. Again, noting that the game takes place in 2040 shouldn't that be 71.


Thanks again for all the hard work. The game was a great read.

Author:  seraphssavior [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

You know, the whole "current day slang" thing actually makes sense within the game. Jonathan was frozen in 2013(?), and was stuck in there for 25 years. No way could he acclimate to new slang that quickly during his return to society, so he just stuck with what he already knew, and never bothered to keep up.

Author:  Jack [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Frogacuda wrote:
One script revision that I'd recommend:

There's a part where they're at a party and Jonathan asks Chris about her relationship with Sadaoki. She says he's her "main squeeze" and then says she meant it in a paternal sense. This double entendre doesn't translate at all. Wouldn't it be better to say "He's my old man" which can mean both father or husband? Even something like "papi" might work better.


Well, I'm from Italy and after seeing the scene in question
Spoiler:
(party with escorts, politicians, and mafia guys)
I definitely support your idea of changing "he's my main squeeze" with "He's my papi" :lol:

Author:  Paolo86 [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Jack wrote:
Frogacuda wrote:
One script revision that I'd recommend:

There's a part where they're at a party and Jonathan asks Chris about her relationship with Sadaoki. She says he's her "main squeeze" and then says she meant it in a paternal sense. This double entendre doesn't translate at all. Wouldn't it be better to say "He's my old man" which can mean both father or husband? Even something like "papi" might work better.


Well, I'm from Italy and after seeing the scene in question
Spoiler:
(party with escorts, politicians, and mafia guys)
I definitely support your idea of changing "he's my main squeeze" with "He's my papi" :lol:


I'm from Italy too (Piacenza) and I totally agree with you on this one. That scene is a pretty good depiction of reality, especially in our country.

Author:  Marc [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

BugzInDaCode wrote:
Just a quick report on some time inconsistencies I Noticed while playing.

Spoiler:
At the beginning of the game in Jonathan's office when you look at the article about his rescue from the survival pod, it refers to the article being written 3 years ago and 25 years after his accident. If his accident happened in 2013 and the game takes place in 2040, shouldn't that be 2 years. The next one I noticed is while your in the lunar facility talking to Salvatore. He says man first walked on the moon 70 years ago. Again, noting that the game takes place in 2040 shouldn't that be 71.


Thanks again for all the hard work. The game was a great read.


I remember leaving "70 years" alone to leave it as a rounded number. Like how some characters talk about Jonathan's time on Beyond "30 years" ago, even though it was 27. It's an approximation. But I believe you're right about the 2 years, let me look into that. I had questions about the timeline myself, but wasn't able to ask anyone, obviously. I think I stuck with 3 years because that's what the game says.

There is one other possibility. Jonathan was picked up by the ship in 2037 but didn't return to Earth until 2038.

As for "papi", I totally agree that that sounds better. Sometimes when you're translating something you can develop a sort of tunnel vision and exclude other possibilities.

Author:  Snatcher42 [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Snatcher42 wrote:
Good idea, bishopcruz! I don't know if it's easy, hard, or even possible, and I don't know if it's something the patch team would want to do... but I'd love to have some "cheat" options. ;)

Coming back to this, having configured the lock-on to some more convenient keyboard keys, I have to say cheat options aren't necessary after all. The game really is pretty easy.

Anyway, imo the patch is nearly flawless, but I take it this thread means there are plans for an update? Is there any rough ETA on when we might expect to see it? The ONLY reason I ask is because I'm about ready to start my second play through, and figure I might as well wait if something new's coming soon. But it's totally fine if there isn't. Thanks again guys, I can't repeat that enough! :)

Author:  8bitsonic [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Elrich2k3 wrote:
How about a translation of Policenauts?

Marc wrote:
To give you some quick replies, I used the internet terms because I'm imagining them as having fully migrated into mainstream speech by 2040


Then make your own game that takes place in 2040, and put stupid internet dialect in it. I didn't wait fifteen years to play your imagination, I waited fifteen years to play a game written by Hideo Kojima.

Image

Dude, that's pretty offensive and insulting to everyone involved with translating this game. Apparently you don't understand what a localization means, and how it differs from a straight translation.

You try to cover it up by acting like a purist when it comes to Kojima's writing, not realizing that every Kojima game you've ever played, assuming you've played them all in a language other than Japanese, has been colored by a translator and/or localizer. Every Kojima game you've played has actually been someone else's imagination. Whoops.

How about taking a crack at translating the game yourself? I bet you could do a better job. Hey, how about you ask Artemio for the English text dump, go through the hundreds of thousands of words and remove all the text you find offensive and impure and unfaithful towards Kojima's vision, since you seem to know exactly what he was going for, and post your patch here for us to play? I'd be happy to beta test the patch during development and help any way I can with your 100% faithful translation.

Author:  hyperblue [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Feature Request: Fix "god" grammar errors.

My feature request is a grammar issue. I loved the entire translation--I thought it flowed VERY well, but it really annoyed me when there were phrases like "thank god" without proper capitalization. Grammar-wise "God" should be capitalized when Jonathan and Ed use such expressions (except for cursing), just like when they exclaim "Jesus Christ" in some scenes of the game.

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/592/01/

I think Kojima would agree as the original Metal Gear Solid follows this traditional English grammar rule:
0x5e6b8: "Thank God Meryl's okay. She's a tough one all right."
0xb1554: "Snake, we don't need a rat trap. We need someone to stop that godamn
nuke from getting launched!"

The above are only two examples from MGS; you can view more here:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197909/15129

Additionally, Kojima has a credit in MGS4 listed as "Voice of God", not "Voice of god".

Author:  Artemio [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Nice move using my MGS text dump as argument against our patch, though you get less points for linking it from gamefaqs instead than this site =P

Of course it is a matter for Marc to decide, thanks for bringing it up and supporting your point.

Author:  dlfrsilver [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

@Marc

In the BCCH lobby:

english : "You suck at hitting on women."

french : "Tu sais pas t'y prendre avec les femmes"

@spike :

I would translate it like this :

In english : "Look at that ass. I would eat anything off that ass."

In french : "Matez-moi ce cul.... ! Je ferais n'importe quoi pour le bouffer !"

Author:  Rick Deckard [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

God should absolutely be capitalised, no matter the context.

A weird thing I noticed is that the number of full-stops in elipses kept jumping between three and four. Using four is quite odd, though I actually don't mind it as a style choice, as long as it's consistent. Unless this is just directly taken from the original, but even then I think it would be best to fix it up. Kojima scripts always seem pretty obsessive about details like this.

Has anybody else brought up Jonathan's use of the word "fag" yet? If it's consistent with the original Japanese, then I'm all for leaving it alone, but it does seem like quite an odd thing for him to say.

Author:  Artemio [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feature requests for future versions

Rick Deckard wrote:
Has anybody else brought up Jonathan's use of the word "fag" yet? If it's consistent with the original Japanese, then I'm all for leaving it alone, but it does seem like quite an odd thing for him to say.


Yes it was discussed at SA. It is indeed consistent with the original Japanese.

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