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Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360
http://forums.junkerhq.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2273
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Author:  Dick Motorman [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

Quote:
I forgot about MGS3 exclusivity, but MGS2 was definitely released on XBOX.


You're missing something here. MGS2 was PORTED to the Xbox it was not developed for it, and like I said before, PORTING UPWARDS is not a problem.


Quote:
The thing about Mirror's Edge is, despite being released for the PC 3 months later (who cares about that anyway?), it is a multi-plataform game that is 1) great 2) amazing graphics 3) each version adapts to the different engines. As you may read in that quote you found, the PC version has a better physics engine which brings many subtle differences to the environment of the game (see here). But the game is the same.


You say it yourself, the game is still the same. Obviously there will be tweaks here and there in each different version of a multiplatform game, but there cannot be that much difference between version, because at that point you're venturing into making separate games, and that costs a lot of money. Like I said a million times previous; besides subtle tweaks to the different versions, you're limited to the weakest systems hardware when you make a multiplatform game. Pc versions of every game give you the ability to tweak the graphics, but we're talking consoles here. 3 months in between releases is ample time to add things to a game for a new platform.

Quote:
So, I don't see any problem in porting MGS4 to a different platform, even if it cames in a Substante style edition (months later) with a different engine. I don't mean to say that it is easy to do MGS4 ports now, but if they had thought about multi-plataform from the beginning, I bet the game wouldn't have suffered much. I mean, MGS2 is multi-plataform (PS2, XBOX, PC) and can you say the original version (PS2) is a bad game?


No other system could physically handle MGS4. I'm not saying this out of loyalty or fanboyism for the PS3, in fact, I'm sure most of you know this by now, but I'm far, far from a fanboy of anything. But rather, you cannot port things downwards in terms of hardware, you'd have to start over and create a whole new game that said hardware could handle, and that'd cost a lot of money, that may or may not be worth it in the end. It's not a port if you have to start over from scratch.

Also, you must be getting mixed signals here, or something, but, I'm not arguing that multiplatform games are somehow bad, all I'm arguing is that by making a multiplatform game you're putting restraints on what you can do in terms of graphics and physics. Again; you can only push the boundaries of the weakest system's hardware.

You can't make a game pushing the boundaries of the ps3's graphics and physics capabilities, max out a blu ray and than expect to make an easy direct port of the game to the 360. Physically it just can't happen, you cannot port downward in terms of hardware, you'd have to start to build a new game.

Commander_AK-47 wrote:
ShinjiPG wrote:
So, I don't see any problem in porting MGS4 to a different platform, even if it cames in a Substante style edition (months later) with a different engine. I don't mean to say that it is easy to do MGS4 ports now, but if they had thought about multi-plataform from the beginning, I bet the game wouldn't have suffered much. I mean, MGS2 is multi-plataform (PS2, XBOX, PC) and can you say the original version (PS2) is a bad game?


Multi-platforming brings nothing but extra money to the developer. I think it is dishonorable because they have no faith in any one system that they once trusted to keep the income constant. Other than that it has no affect on the games quality in general. Take Star Wars: The Force Unleashed for example. The game is on PS3, PS2, Xbox, Xbox-360, PSP, Wii and PC. Each version has different strengths depending on the system. The game is not brought down as a whole because it has to lower one versions standards to match the standards of a lower console.


Also, please don't confuse what I'm saying with what AK is saying. I'm not trying to say anyone is right or wrong, but rather maybe you are getting confused, and mixing signals.

Author:  Commander_AK-47 [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

Dick Motorman wrote:
Also, you must be getting mixed signals here, or something, but, I'm not arguing that multiplatform games are somehow bad, all I'm arguing is that by making a multiplatform game you're putting restraints on what you can do in terms of graphics and physics. Again; you can only push the boundaries of the weakest system's hardware.


I wasn't saying that either. I was just saying that a multiplatform game doesn't have to be restricted by the lowest quality system on the bunch.

Commander_AK-47 wrote:
....Take Star Wars: The Force Unleashed for example. The game is on PS3, PS2, Xbox, Xbox-360, PSP, Wii and PC. Each version has different strengths depending on the system. The game is not brought down as a whole because it has to lower one versions standards to match the standards of a lower console.

Author:  Dick Motorman [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

Dick Motorman wrote:
Also, you must be getting mixed signals here, or something, but, I'm not arguing that multiplatform games are somehow bad, all I'm arguing is that by making a multiplatform game you're putting restraints on what you can do in terms of graphics and physics. Again; you can only push the boundaries of the weakest system's hardware.


Quote:
I wasn't saying that either. I was just saying that a multiplatform game doesn't have to be restricted by the lowest quality system on the bunch.


But it does. I'm not saying that the quality of the game is restricted at all, the story can be amazing, and the gameplay can be great, these are things that the developer can work around. But in terms of pushing hardware, graphics capabilities, physics capabilities, you can only go as far as the weakest system will take you, unless you start making completely different versions of the same game, which is basically what was done for The Force Unleashed

Commander_AK-47 wrote:
....Take Star Wars: The Force Unleashed for example. The game is on PS3, PS2, Xbox, Xbox-360, PSP, Wii and PC. Each version has different strengths depending on the system. The game is not brought down as a whole because it has to lower one versions standards to match the standards of a lower console.



This game looks like it was made in two batches, one for the pc, 360, and ps3, and another for the wii, psp, and ps2.

If you take a look at these screen shots;

PSP
Image

WII
Image

Now, besides some obvious tweaks to the graphics, these two look basically the same right? That's because they're probably built off of the same engine. Leading me to believe that this game was built in two batches, and thats not something that happens with your everyday multiplatform game, it usually only happens when something is extremely hyped up and backed by a big company with tons of money to spend (lucas arts in this case) also, when there's a huge movie for example, most of the spider man movies had numerous versions of each game, same with iron man.

Now take a look at this video with side by side comparison of the ps3 and 360 versions;



Pretty much exactly the same. And quite obviously much better looking than the Wii, or PSP versions. Two different games were developed here.

All I'm trying to get you guy's to understand is that it DOES put a restraint on what you can do from a technological stand point. I'm not saying it makes games bad, I'm not saying that people can't and have not worked around these limitations, because they have, but rather, they are there.

Author:  Commander_AK-47 [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

Well you've convinced me.

Author:  Artemio [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

As a developer, even though the discussion has ended, I wanted to add a bit to it. I feel strongly about the recent multi-platform tendencies in the industry, since I do believe as well that games are affected in terms of general quality. One other way different from the ones exposed is the extra layer in terms of execution.. you have an abstraction layer that is used to have the same game running in different platforms, and that extraction layer manages resources and data. It is not emulation, but thinking of it as similar helps.

Author:  ShinjiPG [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

Dick, you're clearly the one not understanding what I'm saying.
By pointing out the Mirror's Edge example, I was proving that multi-plataform games don't need to be limited to the weakest system specs. Do you need me to tell you again that Mirror's Edge PC is far superior than the PS3 and XBOX versions in terms of physics engine and graphics, while still being the same game? Because I can write it as many times as you want.

Author:  Dick Motorman [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

ShinjiPG wrote:
Dick, you're clearly the one not understanding what I'm saying.
By pointing out the Mirror's Edge example, I was proving that multi-plataform games don't need to be limited to the weakest system specs. Do you need me to tell you again that Mirror's Edge PC is far superior than the PS3 and XBOX versions in terms of physics engine and graphics, while still being the same game? Because I can write it as many times as you want.



I some how doubt that the small technical improvements made to that game make the PC version "far superior" to the PS3 or 360 version.

Author:  ShinjiPG [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

Dick Motorman wrote:
ShinjiPG wrote:
Dick, you're clearly the one not understanding what I'm saying.
By pointing out the Mirror's Edge example, I was proving that multi-plataform games don't need to be limited to the weakest system specs. Do you need me to tell you again that Mirror's Edge PC is far superior than the PS3 and XBOX versions in terms of physics engine and graphics, while still being the same game? Because I can write it as many times as you want.



I some how doubt that the small technical improvements made to that game make the PC version "far superior" to the PS3 or 360 version.


You're missing the point. Whatever, this discussion will have no end.

Author:  Dick Motorman [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

believe me I stopped caring a long time ago.

Author:  cacetete [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

it could be converted, but it would require some programming and it probably is not worth it. probably easier and worth more money to make another game.

Author:  Dick Motorman [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

Quote:
Quote:
No other system could physically handle MGS4. I'm not saying this out of loyalty or fanboyism for the PS3, in fact, I'm sure most of you know this by now, but I'm far, far from a fanboy of anything. But rather, you cannot port things downwards in terms of hardware, you'd have to start over and create a whole new game that said hardware could handle, and that'd cost a lot of money, that may or may not be worth it in the end. It's not a port if you have to start over from scratch.


Correct, its impossible for the 360 to run MGS4, because it was designed for a system originaly with much greater specifications and a larger storage.

The only reason why MGS2 was ported to the XBOX, was because the system was more powerful then the PS2. So will people quit it about the 360 MGS4 business.



exactly, however we could have done with out this:


Quote:
The 360 was released after MGS4 was announced exclusively for the PS3 back in 2005, so if 360 owners were silly enough to invest in a 360 instead of a PS3. Its there problem they must cope.




Quote:
it could be converted, but it would require some programming and it probably is not worth it. probably easier and worth more money to make another game.


No, you're just completely wrong. Honestly it defies all logic, they can't just "convert it with some programming" they'd have to rebuild the entire game for the 360, Like I said a billion times in this thread, you cannot port downward in terms of hardware specifications.

Author:  Commander_AK-47 [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

Dick is right, it is impossible unless they completely remake it for 360.

Author:  KOJIMASAN [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kojima on MGS5 and PS3 vs 360

Henry Spencer wrote:
Can't blame him really. People kept asking, so it's only natural he would be sick of it. Makes me wonder what system his next game will be on? If it's another PS3 exclusive, he'll have to be prepared for more of this shit. :lol:


Yeah but if he wants it too stop then go multiplatform I am really not a big fan of console exsclusives in general.

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