Overlapping Kojima games?

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Johnny Undaunted
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Johnny Undaunted »

snatcher1988 wrote:Don't know if this would count or not but...
Spoiler:
The official Metal Gear timeline, now that it's coming to an end, spans 50 years (from 1964-2014). So did the timeline for Snatcher. The game started on June 6th, 1991, and ended during Christmastime 2042.

And yes, I'm using the original intended timeline, as intended by Kojima himself in the PC88/MSX2/PC Engine CD versions of the game, as well in the MSX2 spin-off that he also worked on called SD Snatcher, not the one that Konami of America conceived of, just to "keep the storyline fresh and up-to-date for western gamers".
You mean Jeremy Blaustein.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by snatcher1988 »

Yeah, that's who I meant.

And not only that, but I've noticed some continuity errors in the localization, as well.
Spoiler:
For example, in the Sega CD version, Metal Gear mk. 2 tells Gillian that he and Jamie were frozen 1989, and that Gillian comes from a world that's been gone for 50 years. I think that quote would have made a lot more sense had they used the original timeline.

Also, when you're trying to shoot out the Cunningham snatcher, who's climbing onto the celling like a Spider, you'll notice that his Snatcher eye is still in its original red color.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Johnny Undaunted »

snatcher1988 wrote:Yeah, that's who I meant.

And not only that, but I've noticed some continuity errors in the localization, as well.
Spoiler:
For example, in the Sega CD version, Metal Gear mk. 2 tells Gillian that he and Jamie were frozen 1989, and that Gillian comes from a world that's been gone for 50 years. I think that quote would have made a lot more sense had they used the original timeline.

Also, when you're trying to shoot out the Cunningham snatcher, who's climbing onto the celling like a Spider, you'll notice that his Snatcher eye is still in its original red color.
Spoiler:
If you recall at the beginning of the game, Gillian has a photograph of Jaime attending the 1980 Moscow Olympics as a teenager. If you consider the American date of the Catastrophe, it makes Jaime a bit older than she really is.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by JimboKudo »

Johnny Undaunted wrote:
snatcher1988 wrote:Yeah, that's who I meant.

And not only that, but I've noticed some continuity errors in the localization, as well.
Spoiler:
For example, in the Sega CD version, Metal Gear mk. 2 tells Gillian that he and Jamie were frozen 1989, and that Gillian comes from a world that's been gone for 50 years. I think that quote would have made a lot more sense had they used the original timeline.

Also, when you're trying to shoot out the Cunningham snatcher, who's climbing onto the celling like a Spider, you'll notice that his Snatcher eye is still in its original red color.
Spoiler:
If you recall at the beginning of the game, Gillian has a photograph of Jaime attending the 1980 Moscow Olympics as a teenager. If you consider the American date of the Catastrophe, it makes Jaime a bit older than she really is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that those dates were changed to make it more modern for American and European gamers, since no other versions of the game had ever come out before.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Johnny Undaunted »

I don't see much point of trying to update a fictional date in a story when its going to be dated in two or three years anyway.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by JimboKudo »

Johnny Undaunted wrote:I don't see much point of trying to update a fictional date in a story when its going to be dated in two or three years anyway.
Well, if you want to make the story somehow more believable. I mean, after I saw the original Transformers movie (the cartoon) I was under the impression that the human race would be destroyed by the year 2005, and that this giant thing would fly throughout the universe eating planets...maybe called....Unicorn? Seriously though, I think I remember quite a few old games they changed the dates for to make them seem more possible.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by seraphssavior »

I don't think this has been mentioned, but in MG2 and Snatcher, Gillian and Snake both mention being home in time for Christmas, during the later parts of their mission.
Spoiler:
Also, this isn't an overlap, but can Gillian's rank change during the ending sequence with Mika? I'm looking at an online screenshot, and it has her calling him Second Lieutenant Seed, but when I just beat the game again, she called him Captain Seed. Is this based on the shooting range, or something else altogether? Thanks, guys.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Spike »

seraphssavior wrote:
Spoiler:
can Gillian's rank change during the ending sequence with Mika? Is this based on the shooting range ?
Yes. Yes.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by seraphssavior »

All right, thanks.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by snatcher1988 »

Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but a lot of Kojima's games featured a plot twist where the protagonist gets betrayed by his superiors:
Spoiler:
In the original Metal Gear, Big Boss was unmasked near the end of the game as Outer Heaven's commander-in-chief.

In both Snatcher and SD Snatcher, Benson Cunningham turned out to be a snatcher, and that the real Cunningham was snatched prior to the events of the game.

In Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, Pettrovich was revealed to be the one who planned Dr. Marv's kidnapping.

In Policenauts, Gates, Salvatore, and Tokugawa, were revealed to be the ones who sabotaged Johnathan's space mission, in the events prior to the game.

In Metal Gear Solid, Master Miller was revealed to be Liquid Snake, and that the real Master Miller was killed 3 days ago.

In Metal Gear Solid 2, The Colonel was really a computer A.I. based on Raiden's expectations and experience in training.

In Metal Gear Solid 3, Eva was really sent in by the Chinese, and not by Kruschev, like she claimed.

In Metal Gear Solid 4, Big Boss, Major Zero, Para-Medic Clark, Sigint (Donald Anderson), Eva and Ocelot, were revealed to be the founding members of the <B>Patriots</B>.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Synthoid »

Just curious but...
Spoiler:
Does anyone else think that the Shinkawa art of Zero looks vaguely like Nohman from ZOE2? Especially in the part where EVA is talking about what Zero did with Jaeger's body after Zanzibarland. Come to think of it, Nohman and Zero are similar in another regard. Both used to be professional soldiers, both were corrupted by overwhelming power. In Nohman's case, the power of Metatron.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Jack Stern »

Isn't "Hidechan 2.5" podcast/soundtrack a reference to IdeaSpy 2.5? (The radiodrama included on Ghost Babel)
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Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
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MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

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ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by 87th »

Jack Stern wrote:Isn't "Hidechan 2.5" podcast/soundtrack a reference to IdeaSpy 2.5? (The radiodrama included on Ghost Babel)
Likely, but that's a podcast, not a game. :P
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by The Prince II »

I didn't see it in the list, but according to the database (urgh) Gene in MPO uses something form ZOE, which allows him to do that crazy stuff. This probably isn't very helpful as I can't remember what it was.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Jack Stern »

The Prince II wrote:I didn't see it in the list, but according to the database (urgh) Gene in MPO uses something form ZOE, which allows him to do that crazy stuff. This probably isn't very helpful as I can't remember what it was.
[Gene (FOX Unit)]

The leader of FOX following Naked Snake's departure from the unit, who
subverted FOX commander Zero's authority and established his own. His codename
was "Viper." He was a product of the Successor Project, designed to create the
perfect battlefield commander to command the Perfect Soldiers.

Gene's intense charisma gives him the power to win people's hearts and minds.
He also possesses ESP abilities that enable him to defeat Null with a single
direct mental blast.

Gene took over the Soviet base on the San Hieronymo Peninsula and stole the
Intercontinental Ballistic Metal Gear (ICBMG). He issued a threat to the CIA
that he would launch the ICBMG into the Soviet Union. His goal was to throw
off the Philosopher's yoke and build Army's Heaven, a paradise for soldiers.
The only reference I see is the Viper codename, from the Ghost Babel guy.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Spike »

The Prince II wrote:according to the database (urgh) Gene in MPO uses something form ZOE, which allows him to do that crazy stuff.
Zero Shift ?
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Junker Gear Snatcher »

This may or may not have been said already, sorry, but I don't have the time currently to read all these posts..

But in the first post, under Metal Gear Solid 4, it has Dr. Ellen Madnar credited for saving Raiden, this is incorrect. He was saved by Dr. Petrovich Madnar, the same scientist that gets around.

I thought it was Ellen too, but Raiden refers to "Dr. Madnar" as a he. Also, in the database (takes with grain of salt) Petrovich is in the timeline, linked to Raiden and Paradise Lost.

After all this, and then playing Snatcher, I strongly feel that maybe "MODNAR" is really "MADNAR" and I had to shake off the feeling that Random was related to Raiden. To further complicate things, I've found songs of Snatcher (this could be an error on someone's part) but Random's is called "Randam"

*shrugs* It really is 'one of those things.'

However I'm positive, 100%, that it's Petrovich not Ellen, his daughter, that saved Raiden.
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MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
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ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
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OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
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KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by 87th »

Junker Gear Snatcher wrote:This may or may not have been said already, sorry, but I don't have the time currently to read all these posts..

But in the first post, under Metal Gear Solid 4, it has Dr. Ellen Madnar credited for saving Raiden, this is incorrect. He was saved by Dr. Petrovich Madnar, the same scientist that gets around.
It's already noted. I'm going to change that when I make the next edit.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Dick Motorman »

Junker Gear Snatcher wrote: After all this, and then playing Snatcher, I strongly feel that maybe "MODNAR" is really "MADNAR" and I had to shake off the feeling that Random was related to Raiden. To further complicate things, I've found songs of Snatcher (this could be an error on someone's part) but Random's is called "Randam"

*shrugs* It really is 'one of those things.'
from wiki:
The aforementioned Dr. Pettrovich Madnar (or Petrovich Modnar, as his name is spelled in the English version) from Snatcher is the father of Elijah Madnar, the mastermind behind the Snatcher menace. He is also the creator of Randam Hajile, a bioroid hunter built in Elijah's likeness.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by The Prince II »

Um at the end of Snatcher Gillian says:

"Random? no, not quite" when he see's Elijah

this is quite similar to the line

"Liquid? no, you're not" that Meryl says when she first see's Snake.

I dunno, but when I heard that line that was the first thought that came into my head.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Junker Gear Snatcher »

EDIT: #-o I read that wrong.

Glad that clears THAT up.

Yes, Gene uses something called Zero Shift.

I also found it interesting that in the Opening of Metal gear Solid 4, during the "commercials" the one with David Hayter shows that he has a tattoo of Kobe behind his ear. (I'm not sure if he really does or if that's also some sort of Snatcher reference)
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Dick Motorman »

Junker Gear Snatcher wrote:EDIT: #-o I read that wrong.

Glad that clears THAT up.

Yes, Gene uses something called Zero Shift.

I also found it interesting that in the Opening of Metal gear Solid 4, during the "commercials" the one with David Hayter shows that he has a tattoo of Kobe behind his ear. (I'm not sure if he really does or if that's also some sort of Snatcher reference)
Could be real too, he did live in Japan for a while during his youth, I'm not sure if he lived in Kobe or not though.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Junker Gear Snatcher »

Yeah, as far as I know, he was being honest in that commercial, but it either means something or it's a coincidence, either way it's pretty neat.
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by cacetete »

Junker Gear Snatcher wrote:This may or may not have been said already, sorry, but I don't have the time currently to read all these posts..

But in the first post, under Metal Gear Solid 4, it has Dr. Ellen Madnar credited for saving Raiden, this is incorrect. He was saved by Dr. Petrovich Madnar, the same scientist that gets around.

I thought it was Ellen too, but Raiden refers to "Dr. Madnar" as a he. Also, in the database (takes with grain of salt) Petrovich is in the timeline, linked to Raiden and Paradise Lost.

After all this, and then playing Snatcher, I strongly feel that maybe "MODNAR" is really "MADNAR" and I had to shake off the feeling that Random was related to Raiden. To further complicate things, I've found songs of Snatcher (this could be an error on someone's part) but Random's is called "Randam"

*shrugs* It really is 'one of those things.'

However I'm positive, 100%, that it's Petrovich not Ellen, his daughter, that saved Raiden.
would make more sense it it was elijah, not petrovich
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Re: Overlapping Kojima games?

Post by Jack Stern »

In Portable Ops+:

- Many characters from the franchise can be unlocked & recruitable, including Johnny Sr. & High Tech Soldiers (MGS3), Young Campbell (MPO), Genome Soldiers (MGS1), Tengu Soldiers & Raiden (MGS2), and Old Snake (MGS4)
- Maps from other titles can be played on MP mode, including Pillbox Purgatory, Ghost Factory, & Killhouse B & C (MGS3/MGO). Rex Hangar can be also played (MGS1)
- There's a unlockeable soldier camo called "Tsu-Han", a reference to 2.5 (or Tsu-Han/Two-Han in japanese version), the main character in Ghost Babel's Radiodrama "Idea Spy".
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