End of the MGS hype?

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mattbellamy
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End of the MGS hype?

Post by mattbellamy »

Maybe it's just my impression but I have the feeling that lately there has been less and less interesting objets popping up on ebay and other websites. The prices are more or less the same but the items are just not as appealing as before. What do you think about it?
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by A.G. »

It's over. Metal Gear has been limping along since 2002. MGS3 and MGS4 stired up some attention, but for the most part it's done. The problem is that the concept of a linear stealth game isn't top priority to the average gamer. And let's not forget that the plot gets more and more rediculous and far-fetched with each new installment. Not to mention that every year we get half-assed crap like MPO, Acids, Twin Snakes, etc... Metal Gear hasn't re-invented itself and the things that made it cool in the late 90's are worn out and outdated. Why do you think MGS4 fell back on a war concept and adding as much of a shooter approach as possible? The old formula is just that, OLD.

That's why I'm firmly against MGS5. Let the series rest with what little dignity it has left.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by mattbellamy »

Wowowo I was just talking about the hype over the collectors :mrgreen: I totally don't agree with you with the MGS games, you'd have to be blind to deny that the MGS games haven't ceased to improve with time, and I'm not talking about the graphics which is sort of a given. The storyline is much more complex, dense and full of great references within each new episode (i think the top with the references and dialogues was in Snake Eater, personally, I find that the game has too much gameplay flaws but just talking about the complexity of the story, it's by far the most complete). The gameplay has never stopped to improve and now with MGO it's a real dream when you play with good players. And the basic story is just brilliant in my opinion, it has gotten biblical with MGS4. I love it, but I understand if some people don't like it that much. Concerning the linearity of the game, if you look back, MGS1 was annoying because the areas were really small for an infiltration game, you didn't have that much possibilities and all you had to do was going back and forth really, whereas MGS4 is linear in appearance but offers you loads of possibilities and gives you plenty of environment to discover which is in my opinion much more fun (it's like the difference between Shenmue and Shenmue II, the thing I hated about the first Shenmue is that you constantly had to come back where you were before, the most annoying part was when working to pay the goddamn boat ticket, hopefully in MGS2, the environments were multiplied and it appeared linear but you could do just about anything and you visited much more places, which again was far more interesting to me).

Anyway, MGS4 is for me the accomplishment of 20 years of gaming experiment and it's not average infiltration games like Splinter Cell or Syphon Filter that could possibly get anywhere near the level of MGS4. :mrgreen:
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by A.G. »

Ahh... Man... where do I start with this...
I was just talking about the hype over the collectors
Hype in games will equal hype in collecting the merchandise form the games. Surely you don't separate the two?! The MG series is no longer the most heyped series out there and hasn't been since MGS2.
you'd have to be blind to deny that the MGS games haven't ceased to improve with time, and I'm not talking about the graphics which is sort of a given. The storyline is much more complex, dense and full of great references within each new episode (i think the top with the references and dialogues was in Snake Eater, personally, I find that the game has too much gameplay flaws but just talking about the complexity of the story, it's by far the most complete). The gameplay has never stopped to improve and now with MGO it's a real dream when you play with good players. And the basic story is just brilliant in my opinion, it has gotten biblical with MGS4.
You're talking about specifics, which is a given. Metal Gear is one of the greastes examples of evolution in gaming. And yes, each game has gotten drastically better. But that is NOT the point. The concept is what is old and outdated. Gamers today do NOT want complex plot and massive cutscenes. They do not want linear gameplay. Why do you think GTA is such a big hit (FAR great than ANY MG game)? Free-roaming enviroments. It's not tied down to a plot that is so complex that even the hardcore fans have to dig around to understand all of it. Metal Gear isn't friendly to the average gamer. Those of us that have been with the series love it. But average Joe... he'll just check out the gameplay, which is very linear.

What you're not understanding here, and I relate being a harcore fan myself, is that what we like isn't what the gaming community likes. The biggest flaw in Metal Gear is that it's specifically targeted at it's core fanbase. This means that the average gamer will not see the artistic genious of the game.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by bay »

the collecting buzz is dying down, but it's still there.

as for the series, it has evolved greatly. i look forward to MGS5 and any Metal Gear * series for that matter. Konami and KojiPro will continue to bring out great games in all genres.

and i disagree with not appealing to the general masses as being a crutch. it's because they have a real hardcore fanbase and off general focus that makes this series worth anything in a sea of generic 3d games that come out every year to make the cash registers ka-ching.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by A.G. »

But the reduduncy of the plots and obscure settings is killing that fanbase. I'm not the only long-term fan of the series that is stopping with MGS4. Enough is enough. There is nothing more that the story needs. Why not a new series? Why not create something new instead of rehashing a 20-year old formula? A formula that only works SOME of the time.
Konami and KojiPro will continue to bring out great games in all genres.
I almost fell off my chair laughing. Like Acid? Acid2? MPO? Twin Snakes? LMAO!
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by TSi »

i could care less if the hype is dying =D just means less cash to use when I buy stuff cause less people try to get them!
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by bay »

A.G. wrote:But the reduduncy of the plots and obscure settings is killing that fanbase. I'm not the only long-term fan of the series that is stopping with MGS4. Enough is enough. There is nothing more that the story needs. Why not a new series? Why not create something new instead of rehashing a 20-year old formula? A formula that only works SOME of the time.
I'm not downtalking a new series at all, and they have started 2 new series. The Acids and PO. PO is part of the Solid canon, but can still be considered a new "series" as it's an expansion to a new platform.

KojiPro has created several series over it's lifetime, you can hit their homepage for an up to date listing.
A.G. wrote:
bay wrote:Konami and KojiPro will continue to bring out great games in all genres.
I almost fell off my chair laughing. Like Acid? Acid2? MPO? Twin Snakes? LMAO!
you're entitled to your opinion, i'm entitled to mine.

metacritic (www.metacritic.com) is a conglomeration of the populace opinion:

Twin Snakes - 85
Acid - 75
Acid2 - 80
MPO - 87
MPO+ - 65

Twin Snakes was an amazing game that essentially took MGS and threw it into an entirely new production effort. Some parts of the game may play different since there are now MGS2 mechanics in the game, it is however a superb production in it's own right.

Acid and Acid 2 are the perfect games for me on a portable. When I'm in a busy environment like a bus or train, I can't focus enough around me to "sneak" around in realtime. However a turn based strategy game (with it's quirks) works very well for a portable market.

MPO is an amazing game for the PSP. I'd say the only thing that makes it not as awesome as it could be is the fact that the PSP has only 1 analog stick. The multiplayer was an unconstested best when MPO came out, unfortunately as time goes on people move onto other games, thus the community around MPO and MPO+ is thinning out.

The only remotely unfavorable review would be for MPO+, and it is debated that most people might buy the game expecting more than what it is, that being a multiplayer focused version of MPO. However at the immediate release bargain price of 29.99, there is little to whine about. MPO+ was really made for the MPO junkies, and it shows.

I of course appreciate your view and do not "laugh" at your opinion.

I also appreciate being the one that has made you laugh, and will kindly request you pay me for entertaining you.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by mattbellamy »

Of course the popularity of a game is tied to the collecting buzz but not totally. I find it strange that the collecting hype is getting down (and by that I mean that there are far more less interesting items available, not that the prices are going down as well, but I guess it's also because some items are too rare to show up all the time) whereas the MGS series is at its peak, I meet LOADS of gamers that are totally new to the MGS franchise and that bought a PS3 just for this game. MGS4 got so much great reviews that it got a lot of newcomers to the MGS universe. The second installment was the most hyped BUT it didn't attract as much people as MGS4 (probably because there was a real division between the ones who liked Raiden and the ones who didn't), just look at the sales of the game, this goddamn game makes the ps3 sell a lot more than ever before.

And about the complexity of the storyline, I think that even if the newcomer is lost at the beginning, he'll eventually understand that the universe is far deeper and more intelligent than in GTA for instance. It's like comparing 2001:a space odyssey to the last Michael bay film. On the short term, the big blockbuster for retards will attract more people but on the long term, it's the other way around. GTA is a series aimed at teenagers. I enjoyed it ten years ago, and the third installment was great in 2001 but ever since Vice City and San Andreas I find the games extremely redundant and boring. I sold the fourth one two weeks after I bought it. Even the live sucks monkey balls. It's a gadget game. Nothing there is deep, sure you are free, but the gameplay is very very poor, and that's why kids like it, it's accessible. But grown ups like MGS better and in the long term, the mainstream audience remember the best games, like MGS2: Sons of liberty and MGS3:Snake Eater for instance. Who remembers GTA III? Nobody, nobody could give a damn about this game. Why? Because it's obsolete. Oh sure, it was good when it came out, but truth is, the game is empty and everybody saw that, even the kids. The only good the game is good at is its amazing graphics and mainstream gameplay, but the game gets dull, the story is for pre-adults in lack of sexual affection. It's extremely easy to top any GTA: you just have to make the game look prettier and add extra bonuses (and that's why some players will still remember San Andreas, because the map was BIGGER, but they won't mention the story or the gameplay, they'll just talk about shallow stuff like "oh my god we can't go to the gym anymore").

Of course for me, the Solid Snake story must end there, because it's just perfect, masterful the way it is. However I won't say no to another online game, because let's face it, it's one of the most fun online games ever, it's much deeper than a Counter-Strike for instance, EVEN if the genres are not exactly the same, MGO is going to be a new reference in the online gaming, it's already starting and spreading.


So I'm not really worried about the MGS franchise and the mainstream audience. Remember Goldeneye or Half-Life? Everybody remembers them, they set standards. And yet they didn't have that much success in their time, not as much as shit games like Tomb Raider who had a terrible terrible gameplay, everybody forgot about the so-called "greatness of the game", but 10 years ago, everyone was talking about it. Why? Lara's boobies. But hey that's how the world works, the first thing you'll notice in the streets are the hot chicks, it's only with time that you'll remember about the chicks that were just "cute" but incredibly deep and forget about the hot stupid chicks.


Yeah I'm really not worried about MGS :mrgreen:

P.S. : sorry if this post seemed rude, it really isn't, I'm just kind of an angry video game nerd , but it's not totally who I am really, it's like one part of me really thinks that but somewhere I totally get your point of view.


P.S. 2 (edit): I'd also like to add that I'm not a blind MGS fan. And I totally disliked MPO (However I'll admit I'm a dumb collector because I bought the premium konamistyle MPO pack hahaha), the controls were terrible and it ruined the game, not to mention the ridiculous story. I play loads of other games. I used to be a big fan of the Zelda series (but the last Wii/gamecube game was totally not original, it really BORED me), and my favourite game of all time must be God Hand, I enjoyed that game like no other game, but man is it fun, best gameplay ever. And of course I like tons of other games, shadow of the colossus, shenmue, jet set radio, phantasy star online when it was online, and so on.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by gixo »

Well. For me it ended with MGS4.
Spoiler:
Snake dies, lol
Now i know there wont be any future releases that will interesst me really, so i will focus on the items i really want. Items related to MGS, MGS2 and MGS3. (actually i bought MPO and MPO+ an hour ago, to complete the collection of the games).

I really hope Konami wont be making a MGS5. First of, Kojima will probably not be in the team. Then why would they use the same name? Metal Gear Solid, wtf is that name anyway? The Saga about the snakes is over. They don't need the name anymore. New team, new name.

And
Spoiler:
MGS4 didnt even have a new MG...
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by A.G. »

Twin Snakes was an amazing game that essentially took MGS and threw it into an entirely new production effort. Some parts of the game may play different since there are now MGS2 mechanics in the game, it is however a superb production in it's own right.

Acid and Acid 2 are the perfect games for me on a portable. When I'm in a busy environment like a bus or train, I can't focus enough around me to "sneak" around in realtime. However a turn based strategy game (with it's quirks) works very well for a portable market.

MPO is an amazing game for the PSP. I'd say the only thing that makes it not as awesome as it could be is the fact that the PSP has only 1 analog stick. The multiplayer was an unconstested best when MPO came out, unfortunately as time goes on people move onto other games, thus the community around MPO and MPO+ is thinning out.
Wow... and you are a Metal Gear fan? Well... Guess everyone has a different opinion on quality.
KojiPro has created several series over it's lifetime, you can hit their homepage for an up to date listing.
Oh gee, thank you for that advise. Surely a guy that has had a Metal Gear fansite for near 8 years now is well aware of such information.

I'm not going to argue over this. Check my site if you want to know why I'm saying what I'm saying. Alternate Gear section has all the answers.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by bay »

A.G. wrote:Wow... and you are a Metal Gear fan? Well... Guess everyone has a different opinion on quality.
Do i prefer Twin Snakes? No. Can I appreciate the production effort and bringing the MGS story to a new audience? Yes.
A.G. wrote:
bay wrote:KojiPro has created several series over it's lifetime, you can hit their homepage for an up to date listing.
Oh gee, thank you for that advise. Surely a guy that has had a Metal Gear fansite for near 8 years now is well aware of such information.
It wasn't meant to be condescending, rather the tone you implied is that KojiPro wasn't creating new IP, which is incorrect. If you rather meant you wanted new IP in the Metal Gear franchise, then I would argue the new series in the Metal Gear franchise fufill this desire (hence the list of games and metacritic retort)

Of course, you have the right not to like what they come up with. I guess I'm just fortunate that I actually like most angles they've approached... it's either that or my expectations on a "game" are rather reasonable. I don't however consider myself to have "low" expectations.

8)
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by Commander »

A.G

what the hell is wrong with you? menopause? Seriously quite whining no one wants to hear it. MGS is not dying. If it was dying with has 1 out of every 4 ps3 owners bought the game. If you wanna talk about games that should die then use games like FINAL FANTASY AND NEED FOR SPEED.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by mattbellamy »

I couldn't agree more with the Final Fantasy statement.

HOWEVER, I totally agree with A.G. on the fact that MPO and Metal gear Ac!d 1&2 SUCK monkey balls, they're a shame to Kojima's work. Sure he's not alone but still.

About Twin SNakes, I still don't know what to think about it. The cutscenes are ridiculous, it didn't have the main theme music(!!!!), and the mgs2 gameplay just ruins the fun of it all. However the graphics are nice to look at, and overall it's fairly enjoyable like any Ryuhei Kitamura work. But it's not a MGS, it's something else.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by violentpig »

I hope all the hype dies down and everyone stops caring about Metal Gear.

It'll make things alot cheaper for me :)
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by jonthomas83 »

violentsnake wrote:I hope all the hype dies down and everyone stops caring about Metal Gear.

It'll make things alot cheaper for me :)
Yeah I think Matts initial post got taken way out of perspective. It was simply a "collectors" statement in the collectors section. So yeah, I hope the hype has died down in that respect, because I have no doubt it'll be easier on our pockets.

But literally, we're talking about the fact that promotion of the game and peoples interest has died down. This is for marketing reasons and I don't think it's because the series was considered crap between the years 2002 - 2008!

Look at it this way, the hype has died down with The Dark Knight, perhaps the biggest blockbuster of the year (I'm not asking whether anyone thinks it's good or bad, I'm just making a point). It's not because it was a good/bad film, people may have thought Batman Begins was rubbish, or that George Clooney had nipples on his Batsuit! It's probably because mostly everyone who was interested has seen it and got the t-shirt! It's the same with everything these days, everything has it's shelf life. It'd be naive not to admit that.

Seriously though A.G., you are taking this stuff way too seriously. We all love the games here, you're preaching to the converted mate. I'm not a mod but I'm guessing that this particular section in the forum is probably not the place to be having in depth conversations about whether we like the games or not, or whether the series has died its death.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by violentpig »

The Dark Knight was a masterpiece. I've seen it three times (twice IMAX) and will hopefully get my 4th trip this weekend if I have time. And I never see films more than once in the the theater.

The hype for that will never die down for me heh.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by jonthomas83 »

Yeah I agree, it's a masterpiece but hey! :)

The hype has mostly died down now, much like matt was saying has happened to MGS4.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by bay »

violentsnake wrote:It'll make things alot cheaper for me :)
being a collector it's never about the money.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by violentpig »

bay wrote:
violentsnake wrote:It'll make things alot cheaper for me :)
being a collector it's never about the money.
But isn't it always so much better when you get a steal on something?

As big as my collection is, rarely have I ever paid more than I wanted to on something. VERY rarely. Maybe only even a 3-4 times. Some people would be surprised what I got some items for. I listed alot of the values on my collection list pages but some are so low I keep it secret heh. Especially when it says "Aquired: As part of a large lot of....". I can look at my collection and see many examples of great deals (comparing what I bought it for to avg closing price).

My best recent score was a private sale for the MGS fossil watch for $85 still new in box :mrgreen:

You just gotta be patient. Except when it's a black sorter still in mailing box, then you pay whatever it takes heh.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by TSi »

bay wrote:being a collector it's never about the money.
sorry, ur comment just gave me one word to say: fail.

so you're saying... a poor guy cant be a collector? a poor guy can't go and collect stuff? and you're also saying, a poor guy isn't allowed to buy cheap stuff to collect?

sorry, i'm a collector, i'm ALSO poor and its ALWAYS about the money. of course its not about selling to make a profit, but its about buying it with the cheapest amount possible.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by bay »

TSi wrote:
bay wrote:being a collector it's never about the money.
sorry, ur comment just gave me one word to say: fail.

so you're saying... a poor guy cant be a collector? a poor guy can't go and collect stuff? and you're also saying, a poor guy isn't allowed to buy cheap stuff to collect?

sorry, i'm a collector, i'm ALSO poor and its ALWAYS about the money. of course its not about selling to make a profit, but its about buying it with the cheapest amount possible.
i think you took this entirely the wrong way.

collecting isn't about the money which means, collecting is about the hobby. collecting is about how it makes you feel. collecting is so much more than "this is expensive and therefore this is collectable" or "this is a collectable because it is expensive"

i used to collect bottlecaps as a kid, my grandfather collected matchbooks from the restaurants he visited. i collected stamps from envelopes that we got at my house, i'd goto my friends house and ask if they had any envelopes so i could see the stamps that were on them. etc etc.

collecting has nothing to do about the money.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by seraphssavior »

gixo wrote:
And
Spoiler:
MGS4 didnt even have a new MG...
Um...Gekko? Seriously, they showed up all the time.
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by bay »

seraphssavior wrote:
gixo wrote:
And
Spoiler:
MGS4 didnt even have a new MG...
Um...Gekko? Seriously, they showed up all the time.
ok, and so is the mkII and mkIII :) but honestly, we don't need any new ones do we? that isn't a requirement for every installment..
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Re: End of the MGS hype?

Post by seraphssavior »

I also just want to say the following things in defense of the "hated" MG titles.

Twin Snakes was my first Metal Gear game, and it got a lot of new people into the series.

If it weren't for Ac!d 1+2, I would have never known about Snatcher/Policenauts,which means I would have never found out about this forum

And as for PO, It had a great multiplayer experience that got me through high-school boredom, and PO+ kept me busy freshman year of college.

They're all good games, they're just not up there with the main series.
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