Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Discussion related to the most well-known series by Kojima. News, debate and any related discussions are welcome. IMPORTANT Any topics related to MGS4 should temporarily go in the appropriate forum. Please keep spoilers out of signatures too.
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Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Commander_AK-47 »

This may be old and you may have already seen it but maybe not. Here you go.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3167884
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Dick Motorman »

yeah old news, I guess it'll be cool to see what the team does with the MG mythos/universe.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Nitroadict »

Dick Motorman wrote:yeah old news, I guess it'll be cool to see what the team does with the MG mythos/universe.
Prediction: Most will bi*ch about whatever is made after MGS4, and reminisce about the 'old' days, or whatever.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Dick Motorman »

Nitroadict wrote:
Dick Motorman wrote:yeah old news, I guess it'll be cool to see what the team does with the MG mythos/universe.
Prediction: Most will bi*ch about whatever is made after MGS4, and reminisce about the 'old' days, or whatever.

And I'll probably be one of them.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Nitroadict »

Hopefully I won't; for some reason I feel as though Kojima "leaving" the directing is what the games need in order to prevent themselves from becoming insanely ridiculous.

Considering the non-canon entries & MGS3, my optimism isn't entirely unfounded. A remake of MGS1 for the psp would be a hopeful sign too.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Dick Motorman »

Nitroadict wrote:Hopefully I won't; for some reason I feel as though Kojima "leaving" the directing is what the games need in order to prevent themselves from becoming insanely ridiculous.

Considering the non-canon entries & MGS3, my optimism isn't entirely unfounded. A remake of MGS1 for the psp would be a hopeful sign too.
I agree that Kojima leaving will be a good thing. Do we really need an MGS1 remake again? I mean especially for the psp, if people wan to play MGS, they can go and play MGS, and if they want it on their psp well they can do that too.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Commander_AK-47 »

Kojima leaving would change things for sure but I don't think it would be good. i think an outsider view is good but Kojima is the only one who can make Metal Gear. I don't believe him leaving will solve anything.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Dick Motorman »

Commander_AK-47 wrote:Woa woa woa! Kojima leaving? WHAAAAAT?! No, no way please! That will ruin everything, he could change his storyline and stuff and make a new series, new characters and such but Kojima IS Metal Gear. There is no Metal gear without him. I would hate it if he leaves. Sure he made some mistakes but he is the heart of the Metal Gear Saga. I don't believe him leaving will solve anything.
him leaving his team to develop a new Metal Gear would most likely bring a refreshing new view to the MG universe, maybe he'd just produce it, maybe not, but it'll be a good thing to let someone else take the reins and see what they can do with the mythos.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by 87th »

Commander_AK-47 wrote:I don't believe him leaving will solve anything.
Well, it'll mean he can put his full focus on other projects, which in my opinion, is a very good thing.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Nitroadict »

Dick Motorman wrote:
Nitroadict wrote:Hopefully I won't; for some reason I feel as though Kojima "leaving" the directing is what the games need in order to prevent themselves from becoming insanely ridiculous.

Considering the non-canon entries & MGS3, my optimism isn't entirely unfounded. A remake of MGS1 for the psp would be a hopeful sign too.
I agree that Kojima leaving will be a good thing. Do we really need an MGS1 remake again? I mean especially for the psp, if people wan to play MGS, they can go and play MGS, and if they want it on their psp well they can do that too.

By remake, I mean a straight up port; minimal work involved transferring MGS1 to the UMD format. I don't want Silicon Knights raping a classic again, it'd be the equivalent of giving a deaf child cholera implants then ripping them out again.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by 87th »

Nitroadict wrote:By remake, I mean a straight up port; minimal work involved transferring MGS1 to the UMD format.
There's already a downloadable version of MGS on the Japanese PlayStation Network, which can be transferred to, and played, on the PSP. There would be no point in publishing MGS on UMD while there's currently a digitally distributed alternative.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Nitroadict »

87th wrote:
Nitroadict wrote:By remake, I mean a straight up port; minimal work involved transferring MGS1 to the UMD format.
There's already a downloadable version of MGS on the Japanese PlayStation Network, which can be transferred to, and played, on the PSP. There would be no point in publishing MGS on UMD while there's currently a digitally distributed alternative.

I did not know this; if there is an english version planned or a homebrew patch available, I would cease hoping for a remake/port.

Otherwise, if it isn't in english, it's largely useless, so I guess I'll change that to english version of the downloadable version of MGS.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by The Prince II »

Woa woa woa! Kojima leaving? WHAAAAAT?! No, no way please! That will ruin everything, he could change his storyline and stuff and make a new series, new characters and such but Kojima IS Metal Gear. There is no Metal gear without him.
Kojima has wanted to leave for years. Since MGS2.
Prediction: Most will bi*ch about whatever is made after MGS4, and reminisce about the 'old' days, or whatever.
Its not unfounded.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Missing »

Kojima has wanted to leave for years. Since MGS2.
I know he said it, but I really believe it wasn't until developing MGS3 that he became serious about departing as director. You can see his interest start to wane as the series' creator, and perhaps he was disappointed that the project didn't live up to his ambitions - the same can be said of MGS4.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by JimboKudo »

He must have really strong ambition. I thought that MGS3 was fantastic. The ending in particular is (at least for me) the most moving ending for any MG game that I've ever played. I have yet to play MGS4 or get a ps3, so I don't know about those.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Dick Motorman »

Nitroadict wrote:
87th wrote:
Nitroadict wrote:By remake, I mean a straight up port; minimal work involved transferring MGS1 to the UMD format.
There's already a downloadable version of MGS on the Japanese PlayStation Network, which can be transferred to, and played, on the PSP. There would be no point in publishing MGS on UMD while there's currently a digitally distributed alternative.

I did not know this; if there is an english version planned or a homebrew patch available, I would cease hoping for a remake/port.

Otherwise, if it isn't in english, it's largely useless, so I guess I'll change that to english version of the downloadable version of MGS.
Well speaking of homebrew, it's very easy to put MGS onto your PSP anyways.
The Prince II wrote:
Prediction: Most will bi*ch about whatever is made after MGS4, and reminisce about the 'old' days, or whatever.
Its not unfounded.
Exactly
JimboKudo wrote:He must have really strong ambition. I thought that MGS3 was fantastic. The ending in particular is (at least for me) the most moving ending for any MG game that I've ever played. I have yet to play MGS4 or get a ps3, so I don't know about those.
if you loved MGS3 you'll probably love MGS4.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Commander_AK-47 »

Dick Motorman wrote: him leaving his team to develop a new Metal Gear would most likely bring a refreshing new view to the MG universe, maybe he'd just produce it, maybe not, but it'll be a good thing to let someone else take the reins and see what they can do with the mythos.
Yea refreshing but not necessarily good. If he backs off a little then that would be good. Like you said maybe just produce it.

Missing wrote:
Kojima has wanted to leave for years. Since MGS2.
I know he said it, but I really believe it wasn't until developing MGS3 that he became serious about departing as director. You can see his interest start to wane as the series' creator, and perhaps he was disappointed that the project didn't live up to his ambitions - the same can be said of MGS4.
I know he was planning on leaving since MGS2. I, since MGS2, have been saying its a bad idea.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Dick Motorman »

him leaving his team to develop a new Metal Gear would most likely bring a refreshing new view to the MG universe, maybe he'd just produce it, maybe not, but it'll be a good thing to let someone else take the reins and see what they can do with the mythos.
Yea refreshing but not necessarily good. If he backs off a little then that would be good. Like you said maybe just produce it.

Anything is better than the crime against humanity that is MGS4, fact it this is what the series needs, a new face, a new story, new ideas, it can only be good for the series for Kojima to back off and see what other people can do with his universe

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Kojima has wanted to leave for years. Since MGS2.

I know he said it, but I really believe it wasn't until developing MGS3 that he became serious about departing as director. You can see his interest start to wane as the series' creator, and perhaps he was disappointed that the project didn't live up to his ambitions - the same can be said of MGS4.
I know he was planning on leaving since MGS2. I, since MGS2, have been saying its a bad idea.
It would have been great if he had the balls to actually leave after MGS2, either stop the series there (which would have been perfect) or give him time to clear his head and come back to the series with a new mindset.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Nitroadict »

In retrospect, I think it's rather fitting (to the PS3) that the first MGS game the appears on the PS3 is well, MGS4.
(both have their finicky problems that could've been avoided, yet are still looked up to for their potential & past greatness, etc.)

I think still they should give us a DLC-style story editor / demo threatre hybrid, because if I could just edit a lot of the pointless scenes out of MGS4, it would be considerably less annoying. If they do think of a special edition title for MGS4 and decide to release it, they should make MGS4: special edition title 2 Blu-Ray Discs. I think it's not too much to ask, honestly.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

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Nitroadict wrote:In retrospect, I think it's rather fitting (to the PS3) that the first MGS game the appears on the PS3 is well, MGS4.
(both have their finicky problems that could've been avoided, yet are still looked up to for their potential & past greatness, etc.)

I think still they should give us a DLC-style story editor / demo threatre hybrid, because if I could just edit a lot of the pointless scenes out of MGS4, it would be considerably less annoying. If they do think of a special edition title for MGS4 and decide to release it, they should make MGS4: special edition title 2 Blu-Ray Discs. I think it's not too much to ask, honestly.
I like my PS3, and I don't really regret buying it, but when it comes down to it, there really hasn't been all that much to look forward to thiis generation, aside from a few good games it seems like no one is really pushing the boundries all that far, we're kind of stuck in a cycle of predictable games, first person shooters that all feel the same, shitty rpgs with psuedo transgender lead characters, generic sandbox games that try to be everything, but are good at nothing, it's just sad.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Nitroadict »

Dick Motorman wrote:
Nitroadict wrote:In retrospect, I think it's rather fitting (to the PS3) that the first MGS game the appears on the PS3 is well, MGS4.
(both have their finicky problems that could've been avoided, yet are still looked up to for their potential & past greatness, etc.)

I think still they should give us a DLC-style story editor / demo threatre hybrid, because if I could just edit a lot of the pointless scenes out of MGS4, it would be considerably less annoying. If they do think of a special edition title for MGS4 and decide to release it, they should make MGS4: special edition title 2 Blu-Ray Discs. I think it's not too much to ask, honestly.
I like my PS3, and I don't really regret buying it, but when it comes down to it, there really hasn't been all that much to look forward to thiis generation, aside from a few good games it seems like no one is really pushing the boundries all that far, we're kind of stuck in a cycle of predictable games, first person shooters that all feel the same, shitty rpgs with psuedo transgender lead characters, generic sandbox games that try to be everything, but are good at nothing, it's just sad.
Amen, RPG's have gone downhill in recent years. Not much else will change for a while either, methinks.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Ghost »

Definitely agree with you two on RPGs, and not just JRPGS you know, Western RPGs have suffered as well.

I don't know how to explain it but I think the problem lies with the idea set behind the game mechanics, were as the 'old' RPGs were based on the concept of recreating the old pen and paper games, the new ones are more like action-adventure games in which the player gets to make some choices regarding design and in game decisions but is for the rest rail roaded and hold by the hand.

The best example I know that has suffered is Fallout, were the old games good examples of CRPG creations of old pen and paper RPGs, the new one is a first person shooter with stat building elements.

I hear lots of excuses that some of the mechanics of the old games; isometric perspective and turn based combat had been implemented because of the limitations at the time, this is not true!
First Person already existed in 1997, as for turn based, again, the game took inspiration from pen and paper games, it allows the player to make decisions in a calm atmosphere instead or clicking in a frenzy like in a shooter.

The people who scream now that is an improvement are mostly people who never played the old games.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Commander_AK-47 »

Dick Motorman wrote:Anything is better than the crime against humanity that is MGS4, fact it this is what the series needs, a new face, a new story, new ideas, it can only be good for the series for Kojima to back off and see what other people can do with his universe

Not exactly my thinking but yes, correct. If Kojima doesn't back off the least he could do is listen to the fans a bit less, oh hell a LOT less maybe not at all. I still think he should have published the original intended version of MGS2 and left it with that. That would have saved us all a lot of grief.
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Nitroadict »

Ghost wrote:Definitely agree with you two on RPGs, and not just JRPGS you know, Western RPGs have suffered as well.

I don't know how to explain it but I think the problem lies with the idea set behind the game mechanics, were as the 'old' RPGs were based on the concept of recreating the old pen and paper games, the new ones are more like action-adventure games in which the player gets to make some choices regarding design and in game decisions but is for the rest rail roaded and hold by the hand.

The best example I know that has suffered is Fallout, were the old games good examples of CRPG creations of old pen and paper RPGs, the new one is a first person shooter with stat building elements.

I hear lots of excuses that some of the mechanics of the old games; isometric perspective and turn based combat had been implemented because of the limitations at the time, this is not true!
First Person already existed in 1997, as for turn based, again, the game took inspiration from pen and paper games, it allows the player to make decisions in a calm atmosphere instead or clicking in a frenzy like in a shooter.

The people who scream now that is an improvement are mostly people who never played the old games.
Actually, I think the people who scream that RPG's are better are missing one important thing: limitations can add on to do the experience.

For any work of art (assuming the premise games are art, of course) an artist has certain limits to their ability, limits to the medium they choose, time to do it, influences at the time, so many other variables etc. etc. etc.

It's in this view that while SNES RPG's might've been limited, for the most part, this allowed the game to focus on things to help stimulate the imagination to trick the player into not notciing or caring about limitations. FF VI's story, for instance, is much better developed than say, FF X's, and even if you disagree, FF VI still has the above advantage, as by the time FF X rolled around, Square got too busy in trying to define the game via gameplay, mechanics, & flashy FMV's (or CG sequences).

It's hard to say whose at fault here, since the market itself (and the users & players) naturally demanded, at some point , to "upgrade" the experience of playing an RPG after achieving a certain technical threshold. The advent of the Playstation was the biggest sign of this, while later on, this demand of an upgraded experience eventually yielded the trends we have today, at the time of the Playstation, the tresh-hold was completley new & unexplored; this could somewhat help explain the vast amount of newer RPG classics for the PSOne: FF VII, VIII, IX, Xenogears, Chrono Cross, Tactics, etc. etc. Even lesser known rpg's , such as Legend of LEgaia, deserve attention for exploring the new frontier that was 3D gaming.

At some point, even the PSOne got saturated with RPG's, but the PS2 game along and helped up the ante. However, in doing so, there was an immediate difference in the RPG's for each console. As explained above, the PS2 allowed even further technological advancement, and the market & players responded, and so forth.

However, the main reason I see the above as valid, is that between the Playstation, PS2 & Ps3, you can easily see games that run completley counter to current trend: On Playstation, you had the release of FF Chronicles & Anthology, which were compilations of SNES RPG's from the past, and yet, they did well on the PSOne, showing that there will always be a certain market on a given system for the previous generation's technology, most likley due to the difference the limitations, the time & place, and the method the gameswere developed.

Overall, however, I think the problem really enters in when the market (the agents involved in the market) are not fully conscious of this process, therefore, it seems unlikely that such a concept, as the above, were embraced, and a well deserved re-demand of games with limitations & in certain styles could bloom.

Interestingly, one possible solution would be for DIY game developers / players (homebrew) to develop their own parrallel video game market from scratch, by themselves, and let their market go through the various phases the other one has gone through.

Example:
While the PS4 may exist at some point, homebrew could develop their type of "system" (most likley an emulator based on previous technologies, but tweaked for performance & design mechanics based upon more recent knowledge), and essentially, the parrallel video game market could begin as 8-bit, and work it's way up. From here on, games that ignore the current trends, and in the process creating original characters & legends of their on, would re-capture what each previous generation was so good at, in their time (albiet, in a slightly modified approach, but I digress).

On an additional note, the metaphor of developing a parallel video game market (which, if you think about it, is the logical extension of the various homebrew scene's eventually working more & more together) could also be described as "resetting everything back to zero"... sound familiar ? ;D.

As for real life implications, I think this might not be possible until the PS4 or PS5, when distrubtion & development materials for our previous generations of gaming are so dirty cheap & documented, it would be a crime for the users / homebrew scene to make their own video game market D:
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Re: Metal Gear Series not done yet?

Post by Commander_AK-47 »

I play Oblivion and I'm happy with it. It's a decent RPG, but you're right they are getting worse and worse. Fallout 3 looks like it will be a ray of light though.
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