MSX Metal Gear & Solid Snake Newbie Advice

Discussion related to the most well-known series by Kojima. News, debate and any related discussions are welcome. IMPORTANT Any topics related to MGS4 should temporarily go in the appropriate forum. Please keep spoilers out of signatures too.
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Post by Marc »

Why would he want to go into the <B>Patriots</B> in MG1 and 2 when Snake, and the player, don't find out about them until MGS2? He couldn't have their existence revealed directly to Snake, so it would probably involve Big Boss somehow, yet we don't discover his existence in both games until the end, and even then he's with Snake the entire time until he dies. We already know his motives in MG1 and 2 from Snake Eater and MPO now. The evolution of the storyline is we don't discover certain aspects and organizations at the beginning. If he remakes MG1 and 2, he might as well remake MGS2 as well, since he'll be revealing the <B>Patriots</B> at that stage in the storyline. Heck, maybe he'll delve more into the details of the first two games in MGS4.

Remakes would not be a good move, and they'd take away from his time to work on other games. To me they just scream of the same attitude we saw with TTS. He didn't even want to include the games as they are in with Subsistence at first. He's one of the game designers out there who doesn't want to rely on remakes to make a living, and here we are asking him to devote his time to something like that.
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Kojima games owned: METALGEAR SERIES
MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Post by 87th »

I don't believe Kojima will remake MG1+2. Konami might ask Kojipro to do them, but I doubt Kojima will want much involvement, as he was very comfortable with Silicon Knights and Kitamura playing around with MGS.
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Post by Marc »

Man, the only thing worse than MG1+2 remakes would be two more TSSes!
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Post by Spike »

Osiris wrote:I don't see why he has to reveal it in SS. He could've told him at any time, and they wouldn't necessarily have to bring it up in either game.
Because if it happened between MG1 et MG2, they should mention it in the latter.
It would be strange seeing Campbell saying "Big Boss, your former commander (and your father by the way, but I will never mention it because it's a painful topic for you, I know it) blah blah ..."

I think they missed a perfect opportunity to add it in the Subsistence remakes.

And instead of mimicing Darth Vader (which would be quite lame), they could have simply subtly changed one of Big Boss's lines to include the father-son relationship (i.e. "This will be our final battle... Let's end this once and for all ... son !)

I just saw on GameFAQs they added MG1-2 Boss Survival guides with the ranking system (if anyone's interested) :
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/game/928437.html
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Post by Marc »

But in MG2, Campbell and Snake don't know Big Boss is behind it until they meet at the end of the game.

I can tell you why he didn't change it, though. He said he doesn't like to change around things in his games too much after he's released the first version.
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Post by Charlie Johnson »

Osiris wrote:But in MG2, Campbell and Snake don't know Big Boss is behind it until they meet at the end of the game.
Didn't Petrovich already told Snake that Big Boss is the leader of Zanzibar Land when you first contacted him in the cell after the maze, near the beginning of the game? Anyway, as far as I remember Snake said in MGS1 that Big Boss told it to him personally, before the final fight.
I can tell you why he didn't change it, though. He said he doesn't like to change around things in his games too much after he's released the first version.
Hm...I guess Big Boss telling Snake that he is his father isn't more or less a change than the new character faces, the toned down difficulty, even on "original" and the new names.
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Post by Marc »

You're right, I forgot that Petrovich tells Snake in the cell.

But the difference between the other points you mentioned is that none of those are dialogue changes. I'm just telling you what Kojima said. Go ask him if you want to know all the details.
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Post by Skycladiana »

Yeah. That should be easy.

The bottom line is that the MSX MG and MG2:SS are to the MGS titles as radio dramas are to motion pictures. Kojima really ought to remake these games-- or at least delegate it to one of his puppets at KP-- to add the richer characterization affordable to modern gaming, as that's largely what's missing from the old versions. I'm sorry, but the events of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land are pretty big, and don't deserve to be contained within such limited expressiveness when they could span out into larger vistas. If you're satisfied with the epic grandeur of these stories being kept chained to first-generation flatness and two dimensionality, that's all well and good, but in my opinion they would thrive if updated.
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Post by Henry Spencer »

Thing is though, Kojima is a hypocrite, he believes in not making remakes or re-releasing games, yet, he goes ahead and allows somebody else to remake MGS1 and re-releases MGS1, 2 and 3 with added features, same for Snatcher. So why oh why, does he continually ignore MG1 and 2 and says he will never update them, since he doesn't believe in updating games. :???:

It just does not make any sense, what so ever.
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Post by Marc »

I don't know if I'd classify Integral, Substance, and Subsistence in with that group. The team technically hadn't moved away from each game when they were made. Those are different from going back to a game many years later, don't you think?

He only remade MGS1 because Miyamoto asked him to, and if Project S is indeed Snatcher-related, then he'll have only gone back to that since Suda brought up the idea. Remember at TGS 2005 he totally recoiled at the question of going back to Snatcher ("I have far too many original projects to work on"). But the thing with TTS and Project S is they weren't/aren't being fully developed inside Konami, so they didn't/won't take up as much of his time, I'm guessing.
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Post by Henry Spencer »

Far too many original projects? :???:

What like, Subsistence (at the time)? Or MGS4 (sequel)? Or Z.O.E 3? (If rumours prove true).

None of them are original titles at all, he truly is a hypocrite, still, to me. Not taking anything away from his genius of writing or directing of course, it is just he can come across as a bit of a hack at times. :???:
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Post by Marc »

I think he wants to work on these unnamed projects, but pressure from above, and his own view of the market, means he has to produce games he know will sell, too.
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Post by Henry Spencer »

I'll just be glad when MGS4 is over; he can produce new, original titles once more, instead of having to return to the same story over and over. I admit, MGS is probably my favourite games series, but bloody hell, it should have all ended a long time ago, so Kojima can work his magic on new products as well as old (Snatcher remake/sequel and Z.O.E sequel, hopefully).
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MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

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Post by 87th »

Henry Spencer wrote:Far too many original projects? :???:

What like, Subsistence (at the time)? Or MGS4 (sequel)? Or Z.O.E 3? (If rumours prove true).
Or Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore or the rumored Wii game that's aimed at women?
He's working on new stuff. Give him a chance.

...doesn't sound particularly interesting to the fans who were brought up on the likes of MetalGear Solid and Snatcher, though.
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Post by Marc »

I think that recently announced new title for the PSP was said to be a new idea he's had in mind for a while.
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Post by Henry Spencer »

There's that Project S title and another rumoured title for the 360 as well. All we can do is wait, I am afraid to say. I didn't mean to sound fed up with him or anything, I was just saying he can sound like a hack, at times, like everyone else, he just did on that occasion.
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Re: MSX Metal Gear & Solid Snake Newbie Advice

Post by jonthomas83 »

Hiya guys,

I've not read this thread at all, at risk of spoilers, once I've completed the games I will read through as it seems interesting from the little glimpses I've seen.

However, my question is this, does anyone know if the Subsistence ports of MG and MG2:SS allow the you to 'Save Game'? It'd also be interesting to know if the original MSX version allowed it?

If not how do you guys suggest I play through? And I assume it's the same as the MGS style "Continue"/"Exit" screen when you die?

Also, are there any good English translations of the games ported to the PSP or Gameboy? I'd like to try them on a portable console. The reason I ask for good translations is because the Wiki says that they had the original re-translated for the Subsistence port as the original European translation of the MSX release of MG was crap! Any ideas on how I'd go about getting the ports for the PSP/Gameboy if they are available?

Cheers and thanks in advance for your help,
Jonathan
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Post by gixo »

Skycladiana wrote:Okay. Finished MG. No big deal.
You asked for help 4 times ^^ That means you didn't complete the game on your own ;). And this does not really belong to the "big boss triology" it's the first chapters of Sorid Snakuuuuu.

However i will be playing MG and MG2 after i finished PO.
Spoiler:
Man, you will love the music with the ice-skater <3
jonthomas83 wrote:Hiya guys,

I've not read this thread at all, at risk of spoilers, once I've completed the games I will read through as it seems interesting from the little glimpses I've seen.

However, my question is this, does anyone know if the Subsistence ports of MG and MG2:SS allow the you to 'Save Game'? It'd also be interesting to know if the original MSX version allowed it?

If not how do you guys suggest I play through? And I assume it's the same as the MGS style "Continue"/"Exit" screen when you die?

Also, are there any good English translations of the games ported to the PSP or Gameboy? I'd like to try them on a portable console. The reason I ask for good translations is because the Wiki says that they had the original re-translated for the Subsistence port as the original European translation of the MSX release of MG was crap! Any ideas on how I'd go about getting the ports for the PSP/Gameboy if they are available?

Cheers and thanks in advance for your help,
Jonathan
Oh, it was you who bumped this xD. However, i will try to answer your questions.
Yes, you can save the game.
this is only a guess, but i think the original MSX allowed it, since you will se how many saves you have at the rank-screen. I don't think Konami would recode the whole game to let you save. If the save function wasn't in the game, they would probably make some kind of save-state function. Like Sonic Mega Collection.

On the question "how you are going to play it" ;) (since i answered the saves). You should play it like it is the 1987. Which means you are NOT allowed to use the Internet. If you are stuck you need to go to the school and talk about the game with your friends ;). OR you can ask for hints here. No gamefaqs for you mate! ;) ("did you know you snake is a girl? he will show you at the end!")

dont know about any good ports. You can still try MG for NES on a Nes-emulator on your PSP. that's how i will do it.
Missing wrote:Having been my first time playing the MSX originals as well, I can say with certainty that these games desperately need to redoing on a modern system. Nothing too extravagant -- I'm not talking console treatment -- but perhaps remakes for the PSP. MGS1 got remade when it wasn't even necessary, so I see no reason why these games shouldn't equally warrant such attention (even moreso, considering they've aged a lot worse).
Oh, thats good. But not a re-make. They should make a "2D Metal Gear Collection" for the PSP. which features the same graphics of the original games. And the game will be:
Metal Gear
Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake
Metal Gear: Ghost Babel

That, would be awesome.
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Re: Re:

Post by jonthomas83 »

gixo wrote:Yes, you can save the game.
this is only a guess, but i think the original MSX allowed it, since you will se how many saves you have at the rank-screen. I don't think Konami would recode the whole game to let you save. If the save function wasn't in the game, they would probably make some kind of save-state function. Like Sonic Mega Collection.

On the question "how you are going to play it" ;) (since i answered the saves). You should play it like it is the 1987. Which means you are NOT allowed to use the Internet. If you are stuck you need to go to the school and talk about the game with your friends ;). OR you can ask for hints here. No gamefaqs for you mate! ;) ("did you know you snake is a girl? he will show you at the end!")

dont know about any good ports. You can still try MG for NES on a Nes-emulator on your PSP. that's how i will do it.
Missing wrote:Having been my first time playing the MSX originals as well, I can say with certainty that these games desperately need to redoing on a modern system. Nothing too extravagant -- I'm not talking console treatment -- but perhaps remakes for the PSP. MGS1 got remade when it wasn't even necessary, so I see no reason why these games shouldn't equally warrant such attention (even moreso, considering they've aged a lot worse).
Oh, thats good. But not a re-make. They should make a "2D Metal Gear Collection" for the PSP. which features the same graphics of the original games. And the game will be:
Metal Gear
Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake
Metal Gear: Ghost Babel

That, would be awesome.
Cool glad I can save, thanks for that mate. Lol about the 1987 thing! That wasn't what I was asking but that's a funny answer so it's good enough for me! lol. Nah I think I'm gonna enjoy not having a guide or enything, I'm just gonna enjoy the experience the good old fashioned "play it yourself" way!

I'll look into a nes emulator for the PSP, nice one.

+1 to the "2D Metal Gear Collection", good idea fella!

Off topic, but does Ghost Babel allow saves too?
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Re:

Post by cacetete »

Henry Spencer wrote:Thing is though, Kojima is a hypocrite, he believes in not making remakes or re-releasing games, yet, he goes ahead and allows somebody else to remake MGS1 and re-releases MGS1, 2 and 3 with added features, same for Snatcher. So why oh why, does he continually ignore MG1 and 2 and says he will never update them, since he doesn't believe in updating games. :???:

It just does not make any sense, what so ever.
Please DONT.
MG1 and 2 are the best ones. If they remake them, there will be LOTS OF CUTSCENES and it would ruin the perfect gameplay.
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Re: Re:

Post by gixo »

jonthomas83 wrote:Lol about the 1987 thing! That wasn't what I was asking but that's a funny answer so it's good enough for me! lol. Nah I think I'm gonna enjoy not having a guide or enything, I'm just gonna enjoy the experience the good old fashioned "play it yourself" way!
Haha i knew that wasn't the question ;)
jonthomas83 wrote:Off topic, but does Ghost Babel allow saves too?
Yepp =D... (but come to think of it, i think it was a bit buggy, so i used save-states at the emulator. but not in a cheating kind of way)
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Re: Re:

Post by jonthomas83 »

Gixo wrote:
jonthomas83 wrote:Off topic, but does Ghost Babel allow saves too?
Yepp =D... (but come to think of it, i think it was a bit buggy, so i used save-states at the emulator. but not in a cheating kind of way)
Quality, I'll be using the actual game on my Gameboy so hopefully it won't be so buggy! :)[/quote]

Cheers for your help man! Much appreciated! I'll be sure to come back here when I need a walkthrough! ;)
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