MSX Metal Gear & Solid Snake Newbie Advice

Discussion related to the most well-known series by Kojima. News, debate and any related discussions are welcome. IMPORTANT Any topics related to MGS4 should temporarily go in the appropriate forum. Please keep spoilers out of signatures too.
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Artemio
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Post by Artemio »

The principal problem with Twin Snakes s that they removed the "barely surviving" feling by over doing Snake's actions. It stripped most of its soul, and the dark enviroment. Besides, it feels like a not well polished game engine with bad models.

I must stop there =P
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87th
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Favorite Game: MetalGear 2: Solid Snake
Kojima games owned: METALGEAR SERIES
MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Post by 87th »

Another thing I have a problem wth is the very "clean" look of the characters. They don't look very human, either. More like Action Figures. They tried to hard to add too many features from MGS2, even though many relied on pressure-sensitive buttons which the GameCube doesn't have. Dropping your gun without firing required you to push around 3-4 buttons simultaniously.
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Post by Marc »

Raven looks really, really wrong. His eyes should have been darker. I know the PS version had grainy textures up close, and that contributed to it, but they still should have been darker. He's a mysterious guy, after all.
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Post by Skycladiana »

First of all: I didn't say I wished Silicon Knights would re-do the original MG games. I'm saying that I hope eventually Kojima will make (in some capacity) remakes of them with the full resources of Konami backing him. He wouldn't need to necessarily solely direct/design the games himself, but I would like to see him write a new scenario, if only to better fit the games' stories into actual 1995 and 1999 era politics.

Second of all: in defense of TTS, it was a game designed to match up to SOL, but on a different machine. Therefore, its look hit some occasional walls. Graphics that on the PS2 would've looked damn good had more visible flaws in the Gamecube, a technologically superior machine.

Furthermore, the script's new translation does a better job of conveying Kojima's original. Yeah, Kitamura's cinematics sometimes go way overboard, but MGS has been off in its own little Marvel Comics land of impossibility ever since SOL. Perhaps TTS betrays some of the more grounded-reality aspects of the original PSX MGS, but it more or less matches up with the rest of the series. While I miss some of the Shinkawa theater material from the beginning-- especially images of Big Boss, whose presence isn't felt quite as deeply in TTS-- I also enjoy the fourth-wall breaking surveilance footage sequences they created, making the presence of the <B>Patriots</B> a bit more apparent in this title.

Each version has its virtues. But what I meant originally was that I hoped Kojima would in some way update the games to incorporate their stories into the political landscape of the 90's as realistically as he did with the 60's and Aughts.
Big Boss: Snake's my brother. (Slap) My son. (Slap) My brother. (Slap) My son. (Slap) My brother. (Slap) My son. (Slap) He's my brother and my son!
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87th
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Favorite Game: MetalGear 2: Solid Snake
Kojima games owned: METALGEAR SERIES
MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Post by 87th »

Well, I'm pretty sure the Silicon Knights collaboration was a one-off. Any improvements in translation (which, to be honest, I didn't notice) were overshadowed by worse voice acting (I didn't like the change in Mei Ling's accent at all). The idea of adding MGS2 elements to MGS1 on the GameCube was quite experimental, but a better team would have realised it didn't work and tried a different take on the game, altogether.
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Post by Marc »

As someone who's played every version of the game in both languages, I can say that the original's (MGS1's) translation was better than TS's. Mantis's "It feels kind of...nostalgic" still kills me, in addition to making me laugh. They didn't change much, though. 99% of it was the same. They just used Blaustein's translation as a template and changed bits here and there. Another of them was Wolf's "love letter" line. I don't know what they have against the guy, but that one game was the best translation work in the series.
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Post by ActiveAero »

I've got a quick question. I'm currently playing through the Subsistence version of the original Metal Gear and I'm getting really ticked off at how it saves. I can grab a few new items and save but when I restart I don't have them anymore. It's like you have to play so far once you get items or beat bosses before the system will register changes, almost like there is some sort checkpoint system except for the fact that I have no clue where the "checkpoints" are. Any ideas?
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Post by Marc »

There are checkpoints at the entrances to each floor and building (as far as I can tell). So if you get to a floor and pick up some items and then want to fight a boss on that floor, exit the floor (say to the elevator shaft) then reenter it and save, and if you die, you'll still have your items you picked up on that floor. It's like the checkpoint system in the MGS games.
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Post by Missing »

Having been my first time playing the MSX originals as well, I can say with certainty that these games desperately need to redoing on a modern system. Nothing too extravagant -- I'm not talking console treatment -- but perhaps remakes for the PSP. MGS1 got remade when it wasn't even necessary, so I see no reason why these games shouldn't equally warrant such attention (even moreso, considering they've aged a lot worse).
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Post by Johnny Undaunted »

Missing wrote:Having been my first time playing the MSX originals as well, I can say with certainty that these games desperately need to redoing on a modern system. Nothing too extravagant -- I'm not talking console treatment -- but perhaps remakes for the PSP. MGS1 got remade when it wasn't even necessary, so I see no reason why these games shouldn't equally warrant such attention (even moreso, considering they've aged a lot worse).
I think the MSX MGs aged alot better than most games from the same era did. In fact, I'll be willing to go as far say that they aged almost as well (if not better than) MGS1 did.
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Post by hybridtheory »

I think MG2 was way ahead of its time, and MGS is like the perfection of the concepts established by the originals....I'd like to use this comparison:

MG1: Stick figures
MG2: Sketched Draft
MGS: Full canvas painting...
I met the hideo kojima !!!111
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Post by Crowley »

It's a shame that Metal Gear-style fangames are such a remote possibility due to the unusual style of the game. You've got ready-made engines for adventure games, first-person shooters, RPGs, platformers, beat-em ups and who knows what else, but nothing that would comfortably facilitate Metal Gear.
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Spike
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Metal Gear Solid 3 : Snake Eater
Metal Gear Solid 3 : Subsistence
Zone of the Enders 2 : The Second Runner
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Post by Spike »

Osiris wrote:Mantis's "It feels kind of...nostalgic" still kills me, in addition to making me laugh.
I think it's a reference to the fact that TTS is a remake.
Mantis has already helped Snake and Meryl in the original MGS1, so, when he does that again in TTS, it feels "nostalgic" for him.
That way, he breaks again the fourth wall, in addition to reading the player's memory card, "shuting down" the player's TV and using the vibration of the Dual Shock.
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Post by Crowley »

I read somewhere that his "nostalgic" line is closer to what he says in the original Japanese version and "Feels kind of nice." strays a bit from that.
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Post by Marc »

Spike wrote:
Osiris wrote:Mantis's "It feels kind of...nostalgic" still kills me, in addition to making me laugh.
I think it's a reference to the fact that TTS is a remake.
Mantis has already helped Snake and Meryl in the original MGS1, so, when he does that again in TTS, it feels "nostalgic" for him.
That way, he breaks again the fourth wall, in addition to reading the player's memory card, "shuting down" the player's TV and using the vibration of the Dual Shock.
The line didn't change in the Japanese version of TTS. It's the exact same line, so the translation shouldn't change. Maybe what you said was indeed the intention of the translator, but since the line didn't change, I don't know if that was Konami's intention.
Crowley wrote:I read somewhere that his "nostalgic" line is closer to what he says in the original Japanese version and "Feels kind of nice." strays a bit from that.
I've heard that argument before, and from knowing the many ways the word natsukashii can be used (and translated), it becomes clear that the person who retranslated it doesn't have a good grasp of how to translate them.

For a start, without even delving into the Japanese, right before this line, Mantis says, "This is the first time I've ever used my power to help someone."

The only line I could call a mistake which I noticed in the original translation is that when Ocelot says to Raven, "Same prediction as always?" it would be better as "Another one of your predictions?"
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Post by Crowley »

That does make sense (studied a bit of Japanese myself, though clearly less than you). However since Psycho Mantis says that's the first time he ever used his powers to help anyone, the question which arises in my mind is what does he consider solving murder cases for the FBI?
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Post by Artemio »

Maybe he is just setting his purpose and intention. You can help people unintentionaly and with your own agenda in mind, and you can help people per se.

I believe it might refer to the second case here, the first time he has helped someone "just because".
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Post by Marc »

Yeah, like the FBI thing was a job, while this is genuine help out of some goodness in his heart.
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Post by DarkTetsuya »

Snatcher wrote:Yes it is here konami.com/gs/patches/MGS3S_manual.pdf

But it doesn't have more than a sentence for each MSX game anyway...
Interesting, it says "if the single player game has been completed, additional content will be unlocked on disc 2." Is that the same extra stuff (the rest of the SVM missions, boss battle mode, etc.) that can be accessed by creating a new save in MGS3S and selecting "I like MGS3" when it asks?

DT
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Post by Marc »

Yes.
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Post by OtakupunkX »

Apparently Boss Survival mode and extra items can be unlocked in the original Metal Gear games too after you finish them.
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Post by Marc »

I think it's just the bandanna you get.
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Post by Snake700 »

There´s also the Boss surivial as OtakupunkX says for both Metal Gear games
What?

Say what say what one more time i dare i double dare you mother f##### say what one more god damm time

from Pulp Fiction
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Post by Marc »

Yeah I meant in terms of special items for the main game.
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Post by Snake700 »

Oh ok
What?

Say what say what one more time i dare i double dare you mother f##### say what one more god damm time

from Pulp Fiction
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