Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:33 pm
He wouldn't necessarily need to be alive for MGS4, though it probably wouldn't be as interesting if he wasn't.
Kojima Games: Snatcher, Policenauts, Metal Gear, ZOE and Boktai
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Well, there was that last bit in MGS2 where Otacon discovered the apparent list of the <B>Patriots</B> they found contained the names of people who'd been dead for a hundred years, or something. I figured it was probably the Wisemen's Comittee from the Philosophers, but perhaps it's somehow connected to Zero, though I'm not sure how. Anyway, he could pop up in some way, possibly as an AI. Stranger things have happened, though I'm hoping this plot thread is resolved in another MPO game where Big Boss can find it out for himself.Henry Spencer wrote:One problem; Zero will be dead since he would be well over one hundred in MGS4! Unless he wants another Elijah Modnar of course.Gaff wrote:Something tells me that it can't be Campbell, even though some people are going off the "Grey Fox - Chicken Fox" same codename possibility. Firstly, here's the main reason why it can't be Campbell -- Null wasn't even known as Grey Fox until he joined FOXHOUND, which wasn't even established until late 1971 - after the events of Portable Ops. Also, Null = nothing = 0 = Zero. Kind of obvious, I know, but just stating the facts via a process of elimination.
First and foremost, it isn't Campbell. That's guaranteed, more or less. Which leaves either Zero, or a new character. Personally, I'm hoping it's Zero. I mean, come on, it's always the British who turn out to be the villains. If Kojima knows his movies, then he must be aware of the cliche. Secondly, there's that whole "Who are the <B><B><B>Patriots</B></B></B>? -- La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo" message in MGS3, which I see as more of a premonition than an easter egg, a prelude of things to come.(Not meaning in age I know Zero would eb around the age of Elijah's father, but that's besides the point; what I meant was Zero would have life force machinary and would be unable to do anything at all, which was my comparison). If it is indeed Zero.
Who knows, perhaps Ocelot is just trying to set up Zero by saying that? I mean, he is calling him Null, just in case his voice is recorded by any of the other rival Philosophers. It would certainly mislead them; have you ever thought of that theory? If you think about it, Ocelot is almost making it too obvious that it is Zero, perhaps for a reason; which I have stated.
I still think it is Campbell.
Yes, that is exactly why I want it to be Campbell and not Zero. It would add emotional impact, since both Snake and Campbell have become old men and some would argue, have been doing so since Big Boss first met him; they have been the best of friends, getting older and older together, in other words, have been through a lot, besides the fact that if Campbell was pulling the strings, I can imagine like Rose did with Raiden; actually have genuine (brotherly) feelings for his best friend.Skycladiana wrote:Well, there was that last bit in MGS2 where Otacon discovered the apparent list of the <B><B>Patriots</B></B> they found contained the names of people who'd been dead for a hundred years, or something. I figured it was probably the Wisemen's Comittee from the Philosophers, but perhaps it's somehow connected to Zero, though I'm not sure how. Anyway, he could pop up in some way, possibly as an AI. Stranger things have happened, though I'm hoping this plot thread is resolved in another MPO game where Big Boss can find it out for himself.Henry Spencer wrote:One problem; Zero will be dead since he would be well over one hundred in MGS4! Unless he wants another Elijah Modnar of course.Gaff wrote:Something tells me that it can't be Campbell, even though some people are going off the "Grey Fox - Chicken Fox" same codename possibility. Firstly, here's the main reason why it can't be Campbell -- Null wasn't even known as Grey Fox until he joined FOXHOUND, which wasn't even established until late 1971 - after the events of Portable Ops. Also, Null = nothing = 0 = Zero. Kind of obvious, I know, but just stating the facts via a process of elimination.
First and foremost, it isn't Campbell. That's guaranteed, more or less. Which leaves either Zero, or a new character. Personally, I'm hoping it's Zero. I mean, come on, it's always the British who turn out to be the villains. If Kojima knows his movies, then he must be aware of the cliche. Secondly, there's that whole "Who are the <B><B><B><B>Patriots</B></B></B></B>? -- La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo" message in MGS3, which I see as more of a premonition than an easter egg, a prelude of things to come.(Not meaning in age I know Zero would eb around the age of Elijah's father, but that's besides the point; what I meant was Zero would have life force machinary and would be unable to do anything at all, which was my comparison). If it is indeed Zero.
Who knows, perhaps Ocelot is just trying to set up Zero by saying that? I mean, he is calling him Null, just in case his voice is recorded by any of the other rival Philosophers. It would certainly mislead them; have you ever thought of that theory? If you think about it, Ocelot is almost making it too obvious that it is Zero, perhaps for a reason; which I have stated.
I still think it is Campbell.
As for Campbell-- that'd certainly be the more damaging realization for Solid Snake, so if this bit is cleared up in MGS4, it's a clear possibility. If it does happen, though, it'll be the umpteenth time that he's been revealed to be not what he appears to be, and figuring out which side he's on will be even more difficult than usual. The only way it would work is if he confesses to Snake his complicity in all these events, since I'm not sure anybody will necessarily buy him as the evil mastermind behind everything. Guilt needs to be assigned somewhere, and Campbell showing remorse would be interesting, unless it makes more sense for him to be innocent, which it kinda does. After all, how does him feeding Ocelot all this information and manipulating everything behind the scenes actually correspond to logic, anyway?
Zero I can buy as a mastermind. Not Campbell. Also, Ocelot doesn't call the "Mystery Man" Null-- Gene is the one who says he believes Ocelot's backer is "The Man With the Same Code-Name as Null." It's unlikely that anyone is listening, especially the Philosophers, since the last remaining traces of them are wiped out in this game as the DCI and his men are assasinated. That mid-game phone call is there purely as implicit exposition for us, the audience, and dropping such a conspicuous hint only for it to turn out to be a red herring wouldn't make much sense, since it wouldn't be misleading any of the actual game's characters. If Snake overheard TMWTSCNAN information, then maybe it'd be a possible switcheroo situation, but not likely. Remember that the only reason we have right not to suspect Campbell at all is because of the same type of Chicken Fox/Gray Fox connection-- if Zero can't be "The Man With the Same Code-Name as Null," then neither can Campbell.
http://www.msxnet.org/gtinter/Setting.htmOsiris wrote:what is the deal with Campbell having the word Fox in his codename? I thought Gray Fox was the only member to be called Fox?
Yeah, it would be a great Snatcher reference; as big a reference as Metal Gear mkII making it's appearance. And the Deus Ex idea is great as well.Gaff wrote:I'm just hoping there's a sequel to Portable Ops, that way it would be more fitting for the "mystery man" to turn out to be Major Zero. Other than that, I like the Pettrovich Modnar approach he could take in MGS4, being hooked up to a life support machine into his hundreds. He could also be like Lucius DeBeers from Deus Ex, reduced to the position of an advisor for the <B><B>Patriots</B></B>, or (staying in the Deus Ex vein), he takes on a similar role to Helios.
Okay, now that's just insane.