Page 127 of 153

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:56 pm
by Marc
akor1108 wrote:F*ck Marc....
Don't censor yourself. If you have something to say then really go for it. If anything I would have expected a "FUCK" from you.

It may be a minor detail, and I wouldn't have brought it up if it would single-handedly hold us back, but if I see something I mention it.
Zhuk wrote:I have been lurking in this thread daily and enjoyed Slowbeef's progress reports immensely, furthermore I have been updating NeoGAF's Policenauts translation project thread from time to time and I will make a hype thread when you guys finally release the patch as I hope it will spread the word out about the amazing work you guys do here.
Thank you very much for the support.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:48 pm
by slowbeef
Marc wrote: It may be a minor detail, and I wouldn't have brought it up if it would single-handedly hold us back, but if I see something I mention it.
For the record, I'm also not just blindly doing whatever he tells me. One of the changes I pushed back on was a new font - midway through, Marc asked me the feasibility of using Metal Gear Solid's normal text font because it is - actually - a cleaner looking version of Policenauts'. Policenauts's. Whatever.

The reason I said no to that one was because Policenauts uses a custom font sheet - English characters have a special header to tell you what width they're supposed to be. Furthermore, there is a LOT of graphical stuff hardcoded to Policenauts's upper limit of 12 pixels vertically for characters.

Even furthermore... where the hell am I getting a Metal Gear font sheet from? (Note: Not the title font with the lines cut out of the letters, I mean the subtitled text from the Codec conversations, etc.)

So I'd have to extract a font sheet from Metal Gear Solid, somehow convert it to the Policenauts's format, change all our text generation routines (we have to pre-cook some of the sentence structures because the game doesn't linebreak correctly out of the box), possibly change all the graphical routines in the game to account for it, test test test. Not to mention the numerous one-off things, like a shooting sequence in Act 2 that uses its own font file, and the fact that I use the Policenauts font file to generate graphics for a lot of graphical changes. (The aforementioned "Autosave file will be deleted" thing.)

I said no to that and we compromised by cleaning up some of the uglier characters. It's subtle, but admittedly the lowercase 'e' especially in Policenauts is kinda ugly looking. Or was, it looks better and more consistent with the other letters in the game.

You might be surprised that there are changes like this that you might not even notice, but I can tell you that it really does make the ROM hack look like a pretty damn good job, and also that I typically do these changes when we don't have bigger issues on the plate.
akor1108 wrote: F*ck Marc.
Hey Marc, fuck you for spending months translating something to give me the opportunity to play and understand the sequel/successor to a game I loved and grew up with.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:38 pm
by HorseFactory
It's maybe a bit cliché by this point, but thank you for your work. If I were to make a list of my favourite games, I'd include Mother 3 and Der Langrisser - games that received pretty high profile fan translations. I'd never have been able to enjoy those games if it wasn't for the efforts of some very clever people like yourselves. The opportunity to play Policenauts is something I've looked forward to for ages, so it's much appreciated and admired.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:35 pm
by Henry Spencer
Thanks for all the updates, slowbeef (if there was ever a more ironic username, considering you're so quick to update us and all). P
Policenauts' font looks the same as MGS1's to me anyway.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:04 pm
by akor1108
Calm down Slowbeef and Marc! Like I said before, at least this shows that you guys put serious effort into making this game beautiful on every single level possible. Your dedication and attention to detail is highly comparable to Kojima's which is why I think I'll start a Junkerhq team fanclub on Facebook someday.

And I censor because I don't really mean to cuss, it's just a way to show that it really bothered me that something so seemingly tiny such as one word with a hyphen can become overly difficult to change and thus make a person go through the process of changing it when I thought more important things were on the plate. But you guys do what you want and are very focused in delivering a perfect translation patch no matter how hard a process might be along the way and that's good.

Marc has always been grumpy towards me. But... I've always been thankful for this project, just didn't find this one change to necessary and other's here HAVE agreed with me. Slowbeef is smart enough to know what is a good idea or not and what's feasible, and so if he does it, then okay!

Also, I like Slowbeef's introduction into this project because he definitely has a good sense of humour and he definitely has been the one to get this project kickstarted again. He also let's us know the intricacies of the game patching and that's excellent! I love you. Good job! Go team. really!

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:09 pm
by Kojima_Devotee
Easy there, Akor - Don't textually abuse Marc. There's reasoning behind his [and the team's] decisions. If I wasn't so beguiled by your shenanigans, I'd throw you to the wolves.

The wolves that ban forum accounts.

Yes, they type and everything.

I digress - Thanks for the update, Slowbeef; I'm awaiting that big day when the topic title goes from "1 Bug Till Beta" to just simply "Beta." Thanks again to the team; When one's fans are excited just to cross over to the Beta stage, it's obvious the project's a big deal. Everything continues to sound insanely promising.

EDIT: Nice speech, Akor. By the way, there's a rumor going around stating that, if you write another poem, everyone will forgive you.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:21 pm
by Tanuki
oh i think we all would love to hear another poem from akor...am i right? :P

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:03 pm
by Kojima_Devotee
akor1108 wrote:Marc has always been grumpy towards me. But... I've always been thankful for this project, just didn't find this one change to necessary and other's here HAVE agreed with me. Slowbeef is smart enough to know what is a good idea or not and what's feasible, and so if he does it, then okay!
If I may interject again, it's true it sounds absurd and a lot of work for a small detail, but, as one that has his own personal projects, I can understand exactly why these little things get attention. One of my "rules of thumb" is that, if a small detail makes a big difference, then it simply isn't small. To Marc, the "Auto-Save" messages weren't small. It's true it was English-ready, but it wasn't to Marc's satisfaction. (He happens to be the one running things.) Though it may seem abnormal, it really isn't; It's typical of technical types.

Hopefully, that makes sense.



Also, I need to make a TV show so I can title an episode "Typical of Technical Types."

The episode will feature the wolves that ban forum accounts.

Yes, they type and everything.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:37 pm
by Artemio
Right now we are in the middle of figuring ou and fixing some more important and difficult issues than the autosave thing, and reading all this discussion around it is not encouraging at all. Personally I find it irritating.

It was a big deal of work, yes. But so is everything else. And also, it was mechanical work. The decision was not made thinking about what it implied technicaly.

I won't discuss this further Akor, but it simply isn't constructive or helpful at all.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:42 pm
by shidoni
Kojima_Devotee wrote: EDIT: Nice speech, Akor. By the way, there's a rumor going around stating that, if you write another poem, everyone will forgive you.
What are you doing? Seriously, there is absolutely no need to fizzle the doozle.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:42 pm
by Crowley
The translation was just released and I was lovingly playing the game.

Then I woke up. It was a wonderful dream.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:23 pm
by Marc
akor1108 wrote:Marc has always been grumpy towards me.
I remember you used to antagonize us here frequently. You would apologize, but then you would do it again not long after. Then after we banned you, you came right back and basically said it didn't matter if we banned you, because you would keep creating new accounts from different IPs. Most other forums wouldn't even have tolerated such a threat and would have banned each new account you made.
Kojima_Devotee wrote:(He happens to be the one running things.)
I have to point out that this isn't true. The buck may stop with me with the wording of the text (though anyone on the team can raise points for discussion), yes, but this is a collaborative effort and there is no leader who sits above everyone else.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:49 pm
by JimboKudo
Kojima_Devotee wrote:The episode will feature the wolves that ban forum accounts.

Yes, they type and everything.
Surely such creatures can only rise from the deepest bowels of hell itself!

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:08 am
by The Spoony Hou
akor1108 wrote:Marc has always been grumpy towards me.
Don't worry, Marc is an ass. You are awesome, and you should make your own translation patch, one full of poetry and censored cussing.

It will be beautiful.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:15 am
by jamesb2147
hey, i don't know about everyone else around here but i do know that no matter what i do or say to the contrary, i really appreciate everything you guys are doing. this patch has been a loooooong time coming and that means a looooooooot of your lives have been devoted to working on this. that's really pretty huge. i'm sorry these things are frustrating slowbeef and i wish there was something that i or anyone else on the forums could do to help. i also really hope that you guys don't take everything that we (the completely anonymous community) say to heart.

you know we were frustrated (though possibly not as much as you) by the stalling of the translation all those months ago. now we see progress and even 1 bug to beta! (even though its not quite accurate) and hearing about something small causing such terrific problems... well we are all very excited and such trivial differences only seem to impede completion of the patch. when people are frustrated they feel the need to vent (i'm sure everyone's had that happen) so it seems understandable that many in this highly active community would respond.

at the same time, it seems important we (the community) remember our place in this. it is NOT us surrendering our time to the interests of others. we almost seem to be trying to prod the team with a cow prod rather than carefully showing our support for their efforts. please all, remember that this is the team's time and the team's decisions and since they are the ones responsible for bringing us the patch, we should not be judgemental but rather grateful for any improvements that they make. i'm sure it will be wonderful in the end and really, it's important to remember that all of the decisions made are in the interest of the community. (not sure this'll help but... in any case, everything got worked out didn't it? we now have "Autosave" and slowbeef rejected the suggestion that we use MGS font on the grounds that it was too technically complicated... isn't this how a team is supposed to work? everyone contributes ideas and the appropriate persons deal with implementation or lack thereof.)

anyway, idk about everyone else but today wasn't particularly great here in central IL nor apparently the internets. i'm hoping that doesn't mean tomorrow has to be the same.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:33 am
by qwerty
how are testing being performed since you haven't yet figured out how to apply the patch? Thanks

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:14 am
by Artemio
qwerty wrote:how are testing being performed since you haven't yet figured out how to apply the patch? Thanks
We do have a methodology to apply the patch, and that is what we are using to test and distribute amongst ourselves.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:43 pm
by Piratero
Will a simple binary diff file (bsdiff) be sufficient? What are the advantages of PPF?

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:56 pm
by slowbeef
PPF is good if the modified file is the same filesize as the original. That's not our case, so we've actually had a ton of success with XDelta, which is pretty much just a binary diff. Easy to use, apply. I'm all about it right now.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:15 pm
by Piratero
slowbeef wrote:PPF is good if the modified file is the same filesize as the original. That's not our case, so we've actually had a ton of success with XDelta, which is pretty much just a binary diff. Easy to use, apply. I'm all about it right now.
Excellent! It's also open source! Hooray! Us UNIX users can use it!

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:24 am
by homunkurus
slowbeef wrote:PPF is good if the modified file is the same filesize as the original. That's not our case, so we've actually had a ton of success with XDelta, which is pretty much just a binary diff. Easy to use, apply. I'm all about it right now.
Glad to know it was useful :mrgreen:

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:27 am
by Old Snake
wowowowowowwo your so close guys !!!! keep the good work.
im so anxious to play this game !!

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:30 am
by milty66
I haven't posted on here very often, but this is truly a commendable effort on all parties involved with the translation.
Hopefully everything will be fixed smoothly and naturally and one day we can fully appreciate your dedication to this dream.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:41 am
by Junker Gear Snatcher
I haven't been the most active person on the forums. (But I'm sure you guys don't begrudge me) I wanted to express my gratitude.

Mock Liquid Snake voice:

When we heard the English characters were being bothersome, we got... a little worried.
And then Ocelot accidently... killed him during the...

Oh sorry.

Point is: Snatcher is a wonderful game.

Policenauts is just as fun.

Policenauts translation project: Priceless.

I can't wait for this game. Beta sounds really nice. But I'd be the first to say that a beta's a bad idea if it winds up hurting your progress.

Still... I trust the team's judgement. Best of luck, friends. Semper fi.

Re: Current Status (4/26/09): 1 Bug Till Beta

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:41 am
by radical7dreamer
I can't waiiiiit for the patch. Do let me spice things up by offering all of the artworks on the policenauts pilot disc for psx, direct rips :) enjoy guys :)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AH10XGSD
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GRRGFJQ0