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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:31 am
by Artemio
Jonathan Ingram wrote:That whole elitist mindset just annoys me.
I second that, having stuff if for your personal satisfaction, if you find any on it. Maybe for curiosity... but it never makes anyone anything (well, it makes you spend more of your income on it, that's about all).

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:05 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
Snatcher wrote:I second that, having stuff if for your personal satisfaction, if you find any on it. Maybe for curiosity... but it never makes anyone anything (well, it makes you spend more of your income on it, that's about all).

So it makes you broke. I suppose that's something. But I'm still trying to figure out how any of you got drawn into this discussion. All I said was that I have an OCD complexion when I buy Kojima shit. Or any shit for trhat matter. Clothes, DVD's, CD's. I don't do it to be a better fan. I do it because in my mind I think I want everything. And maybe I do, but I think I let myself get carried away with it all. I have no income, so it's an amazement I've acquired as much as I have. But it has nothing to do with anyone else. It's just my own warped mind. And if the shrinks knew, I'd probably be locked up in a padded room for the rest of my life left to knaw on my own tongue. I've practically asphyxiated myself in the past.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:12 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
But just a quick a question for you Snatcher. Why are you saving that can of snake soup you received from Konami if you're not planning on eating it? That's just a waste. Like buying an action figure or doll just to leave it in its box never to be played with, because some collector believes somewhere down the line he's going to be made a billionaire off some shitty toy if he just waits fifty years. I know that wouldn't be the case with the soup, but what's the use of holding onto it if you're never going to eat it? What's the use of holding onto anything if you're never going to use it? Don't you think it's a bit obsessive to hold onto a can of soup for the rest of your life?
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:29 pm
by thagen
Jesus man.. now you're being ridiculous. Who cares if he holds onto some goddamn snake soup? It's a fun item to have, and that stuff doesn't look very good anyway. Was it even meant to be eaten? =]
Just give it a rest and accept that there are other ways of thinking.
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:08 am
by Artemio
Indeed I do not plan on eating it.... It is just as using the Snake Figure for playing...
It can be used that way.. but in the case of the soup an empty can looks bad in the shelf... and I probably wouldn't eat the thing anyway (I could buy a campbell's soup dor that). The Snake figure is the same.. I could play with it and move all it's joints and stuff all the time.... I would have gotten the regular use out of it, but that is not why I buy it for. I buy them to look in my shelf and loose some time every other month watching the stuff related to the games I like... that's about it.
When my friends come home, they usually are not interested in my Metal Gear stuff.. (which is the most numerous but not my most important collection, for me anyway). The usually just watch a figure and a premium pack on the shelf and that is enough for a regular guy (they might call me sick bastard or something too, while at it).
Even less people would care for Policenauts or Snatcher stuff, and even less for the slight differences between versions or from track to track in a soundtrack... But I enjoy it. It s for me. No more than a 100 people in the world would care for that stuff, I seriously believe it. And from those 100, 90% would be bored by the bulk of it.
But I love browing it for myself from time to time., as you probably know, I don't plan on "making myself rich" out of the stuff. I wouldn't open my premium packs or sealed games if so.
Anyway, as you said this discussion is taking a different and distorted perspective.
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:33 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
thagen wrote:Jesus man.. now you're being ridiculous. Who cares if he holds onto some goddamn snake soup? It's a fun item to have, and that stuff doesn't look very good anyway. Was it even meant to be eaten? =]
Just give it a rest and accept that there are other ways of thinking.
I do accept other ways of thinking. Weren't you all just criticizing me a few posts ago because I said some shit about collecting you didn't agree with?? All I'm asking is why does he save a can of soup, when it's meant to be eaten? And despite what you say, I think the soup looks tasty. But then, I'm a nut for soup. Snake or not.
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:54 pm
by Ninja Kurosai
ReasonWhyNot wrote:thagen wrote:Jesus man.. now you're being ridiculous. Who cares if he holds onto some goddamn snake soup? It's a fun item to have, and that stuff doesn't look very good anyway. Was it even meant to be eaten? =]
Just give it a rest and accept that there are other ways of thinking.
I do accept other ways of thinking. Weren't you all just criticizing me a few posts ago because I said some shit about collecting you didn't agree with?? All I'm asking is why does he save a can of soup, when it's meant to be eaten? And despite what you say, I think the soup looks tasty. But then, I'm a nut for soup. Snake or not.
Like Art said earlier, not everything is meant for what you would assume the purpose is. The meat is not meant to be eaten, it's just Kojimas taste for detail so I'm sure he decided to make it real snake meat
Oh, and stop jumping all over everyone becuase you are being criticized over something so trivial, its really becoming annoying.
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:06 pm
by Snake Plissken
Kojima is a silly goose, you gotta learn and play for a long time to understand.
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:33 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
Ninja Kurosai wrote:Like Art said earlier, not everything is meant for what you would assume the purpose is. The meat is not meant to be eaten, it's just Kojimas taste for detail so I'm sure he decided to make it real snake meat
Oh, and stop jumping all over everyone becuase you are being criticized over something so trivial, its really becoming annoying.
I think I have enough reason to jump on everyone. I had no intention of starting this fucking discussion. And I certainly have no intention of continuing this discussion. But everyone feels it necessary to relay their viewpoints on me over such a "trivial" matter. What that matter is however, I'm not even entirely certain, because I don't know what I said to start this discussion. And the soup is meant to be eaten, alright? I can guarantee that, because even if it was just meant as a "collector's item", some idiot would put it past him and decide to eat the soup (like myself for instance). And for that simple reason, they're not going to put anything in the can that isn't edible for the stupid people who confuse moth balls with malt balls. Besides, they could've filled it with anything. If it was just meant as a collector's item, a collector would never know what's inside it, because a collector would never open it. They could fill it with shit. It wouldn't matter if it was never meant to be opened. And this argument could be used for action figures or for anything else. I just brought up the can of soup in particular because it's a strange item. But let's all just stop with this discussion, alright? Don't respond to this message. Let's get back to the Twin Snakes argument or let's leave this thread alone. Please.
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:15 am
by Artemio
Ok, I unlocked the topic because I consider you are right by putting the topic "back on topic". I also unlocked it, because I consider we can all go on, disregarding the offtopic stuff (this being the last post to be offtopic).
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:11 am
by Szczepaniak
I never completed TTS, can anyone tell me what the credits were like?
I loved how in MGS there was that beautiful Irish music at the end, and then the footage of the Alaskan outdoors. My god, it has to be one of the most beautiful moments in gaming that I've experienced, and geniunely brought me closer to tears than any other gaming moment. Utterly amazing, and so bittersweet after what one had experienced before in the game.
Like a waffer thin mint after a massive feast. It cleansed the mental pallete so to speak, and really rounded the game off for me.
How different, if at all, was it in TTS?
Actually, are there videos of the credits online anywhere? (preferably small since I have a 56k dial up)
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:12 am
by Ninja Kurosai
otaku84 wrote:I never completed TTS
Same here

I just got tired after the 2nd fight with Vulcan and quit.
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:46 am
by 87th
otaku84 wrote:
How different, if at all, was it in TTS?
Not very, just the characters didn't have that worn, tired look that they did in the original, and in turn, they didn't look like they deserved to get out, as much. Disappointing. For a game with worse graphics, the original is more beautiful.
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:35 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
Worn, tired look? How could you tell with those graphics? Snake pretty much looks worn from the beginning. So does Otacon. And Meryl. And Liquid. And Ocelot. They all do, meaning they look the same from start to finish.
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:55 pm
by Artemio
I guess he didn't mean that they grow tired, but that they look though the game.. adding a feeling of decadence.
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:01 am
by 87th
That's the thing, they look worn from the start, not just in the ending (there's a feeling that no one wants to be there, which is very strong if you ever get to see the briefing). This is a Hideo Kojima game, not Hollywood.
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:43 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
What happened to Hollywood? Or movies in general really? Why did it change to support the biggest piece of shit blockbuster over the smaller, more intimate films that prefer characterization and humanization to gun fights and car chases? Not that you can't have those things to make a good film. Plenty of great films have had them. Some of the best. Maybe people were just spoiled by those films. They didn't realize that one great, memorable scene was being built up throughout the film. It doesn't just happen like it does nowadays. It had a purpose and a place in the screenplay. It's sad.
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:22 am
by Jonathan Ingram
You have a good point - MGS was emulating a few "old" Hollywood movies, whereas TTS took the path of the new, flashy movies (but of course the "old/new" argument probably existed 20 years ago comparing Bullit to Big Trouble in Little China or whatever). That's probably what knocked TTS out of touch with MGS fans, the lack of love. But that's been said before.
As for new Hollywood movies, I don't like to think of Hollywood as the seat of all movies. Last year was a superb year for movies, and most of the best were smaller movies - Lost in Translation for instance was filmed entirely in Japan, and I haven't seen it, but I would have though Sideways was not-so-Hollywood. Besides the point though really, as Hollywood at the moment would rather remake movies than come up with new ones. Flight of the Phoenix I ask you. There's a film that really didn't need remaking. To get the tension between the crew and the German plane designer in the 21st Century, he'd have to be an Arab. But that won't stop them putting it through Action-Update-Mincer.
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:42 am
by haiku
I really liked The Twin Snakes. I thought it was really great. I played the original but only a little and never really got into it. I guess maybe I never gave it enough of a change. After hearing all the hype about TTS I picked it up and liked it so much that now I've gone on to get Substance and just 2 days ago Snake Eater (which is very impressive so far!).
Anyway I wanted want to say, TTS definately doesn't "suck". It's a great game. Don't be too 1337 and dismiss it easily because it's a little different than what you're used to. it really is very cool.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:04 am
by Szczepaniak
I agree completely with the more grizzled look of MGS.
I actually think that the low res textures of the PS1
added to the game. It felt so gritty, so cold.
I think this is a big problem with modern developers who lack insight into the gaming medium.
They always think that bigger and smoother is better. Sometimes I like to see the graininess in things. Look at SH2, the grain filter worked. For those who liked Ico, Im sure you liked the ability to change the camera filters.
Sometimes a game can look too sterile because there are no rough edges. Its difficult to describe, but the PS1 version, due to its inherint limitations produced something artistic. Sometimes a game needs some rough edges, a bit of spice, like dirty hobo stew almost..... I have no idea if anyone will get that analogy.

??:
Which lends itself well to the legend of Metal gear, since the first game was also born out of limitations. Games designers work best when confined within a space and limited.
I love in MGS the grey blocky look to their eyes. It worked for me.
Speaking of
Hollywood...
They just don't make em like they used. I don't think
Big Trouble in Little China will ever be bettered. Brookheimer and Spielburg? Pah! Gimme Jack Burton and the Pork Chop express any day of the week.

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:18 am
by Artemio
otaku84 wrote:Speaking of
Hollywood...
They just don't make em like they used. I don't think
Big Trouble in Little China will ever be bettered. Brookheimer and Spielburg? Pah! Gimme Jack Burton and the Pork Chop express any day of the week.

- You know what ol' Jack Burton says at a time like this?
Thunder: Who?
-Jack Burton... ME!
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:39 am
by ReasonWhyNot
otaku84 wrote:Speaking of
Hollywood...
They just don't make em like they used. I don't think
Big Trouble in Little China will ever be bettered. Brookheimer and Spielburg? Pah! Gimme Jack Burton and the Pork Chop express any day of the week.

Aren't they remaking BTiLC? Ah well, I was never a Carpenter fan. I liked the atmosphere in The Thing (plus the ending), but aside from that, he's never appealed to me. But those three warlord guys or whatever they're called in Big Trouble were lifted from the Lone Wolf and Cub series. I suggest everyone to try this series out if you're a fan of bloody chambara flicks with lots of great showdowns in the vein of spaghetti westerns believe it or not (Kurosawa's samurai flicks were mostly a take on American westerns). It was adopted from a Kazuo Koike manga (the creator of Lady Snowblood). You'll see a lot of these film's influences in Kill Bill, so I definitely recommend to any fans of that film.
But yeah, I agree that the low-tech visuals in MGS1 added something to the atmosphere. But I don't think I'd complain if the graphics were at the level of MGS3. I jus didn't like them in TTS. The facial models were ugly in my opinion. I have mixed feelings about the level designs. Some things were nice. Other things weren't. Am I the only one who didn't like the look they gave to the PCs in the game (like the ones in the room where you fight the Ninja)? They looked to futuristic and silly. If you look at them in MGS1, they look like real computers. So you see Silicon Knights took liberties in making the game a little less realistic then Kojima created the original to be. But maybe it's just me. I don't know.
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:45 pm
by Szczepaniak
Ahh, but MGS3 had a much more rugged snake with beard, and also more low tech areas. So in a strange way it all ended out very balanced against the crisp visuals.
Cheers for the explanation the film influences, I will have to check that out.
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:18 pm
by hybridtheory
ReasonWhyNot wrote:otaku84 wrote:Speaking of
Hollywood...
They just don't make em like they used. I don't think
Big Trouble in Little China will ever be bettered. Brookheimer and Spielburg? Pah! Gimme Jack Burton and the Pork Chop express any day of the week.

Aren't they remaking BTiLC? Ah well, I was never a Carpenter fan. I liked the atmosphere in The Thing (plus the ending), but aside from that, he's never appealed to me. But those three warlord guys or whatever they're called in Big Trouble were lifted from the Lone Wolf and Cub series. I suggest everyone to try this series out if you're a fan of bloody chambara flicks with lots of great showdowns in the vein of spaghetti westerns believe it or not (Kurosawa's samurai flicks were mostly a take on American westerns). It was adopted from a Kazuo Koike manga (the creator of Lady Snowblood). You'll see a lot of these film's influences in Kill Bill, so I definitely recommend to any fans of that film.
But yeah, I agree that the low-tech visuals in MGS1 added something to the atmosphere. But I don't think I'd complain if the graphics were at the level of MGS3. I jus didn't like them in TTS. The facial models were ugly in my opinion. I have mixed feelings about the level designs. Some things were nice. Other things weren't. Am I the only one who didn't like the look they gave to the PCs in the game (like the ones in the room where you fight the Ninja)? They looked to futuristic and silly. If you look at them in MGS1, they look like real computers. So you see Silicon Knights took liberties in making the game a little less realistic then Kojima created the original to be. But maybe it's just me. I don't know.
Yea in mgs1 they looked like Macs and seemed feasable..back in the day.
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:58 pm
by randomwab
I feel.....different now. Last i played TTS was probbably last April, before i got rid of y copy of it. Back then, i thought TTS had destroyed everything MGS had achieved. I hated most things about it. Now that i got a new Gamecube, i got TTS again, and have replayed it, and as i said, i feel different about it now. The cut scenes, the one thing i hated the most, i feel are great. I say this speaking of games in general. I now love the cut scenes, but because i am looking at them in a new light. The voice acting has improved in places, but is lacking in others. The graphics are excellent, and the gameplay, again, makes the game too easy, but more enjoyable. I really enjoy TTS. I admit, the original MGS is much better, but the thing was i was comparing it to MGS to much, i didnt this time, and i feel happy with it, and that it is a good game. I am glad i have done this as now i can look onto it as a good remake.