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Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:36 am
by Johnny Undaunted
Jack wrote:I'm more concerned about name changes though. Shouldn't they be consistent with the "previous missions" file you can read in MGS and Twin Snakes?
Well, considering the fact they only mentioned major characters in the Previous Operations logs, I don't think it's going to be too much of a problem for the bosses.

I think they'll probably have to change Gustava's name back to Natasha though. They've used all the new names for the enemies in the MGS3: The Countdown book, but kept Natasha's old name in it. Not to mention it would be weird to call her Gustava, seeing how they've already mentioned by her old name in the Previous Operations files.

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 2:31 pm
by Snake Plissken
We're all being fooled, this will happen.

Image

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:39 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
Johnny Undaunted wrote:No, they were called smoke emitters in the Japanese version. I believe I told you that once.
Well, if you did, then I had forgotten. Sorry.

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:57 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
Snake Plissken wrote:I second the thought too. As it is the strong reason I have been getting pull latley on the PC9821 translation project. There is no hope in this world for PN making a global debut commercially... And somehow deep down inside I like that. Because it feels like an acult gift to the people that know and understand how to play it, and know it's true awesomeness. And I think some of you (esspecially James) can agree a bit. Cause otherwise if it is appealling to the general public, it will get overrated and there will be forums devoted to it, full of members in the category of "Birth Control Poster Children of The Year." :cool:
Putting on airs? What's so difficult about playing Policenauts? Anyone could play it. It's not a very difficult game to understand (in fact, it's not much of a game at all). And I hardly doubt this game would gain much of a cult following. From Kojima fanboys, yes, but then, a lot of them have already imported the game. And they rant and they rave at how great it is to all that haven't played it, but I really think they're just trying to get attention or make others jealous or whatever. I highly doubt in this day and age that much of a fuss would be made over this type of game. I'm even surprised when Kojima fanboys praise the game as much as they do, but I don't bother questioning their sincerity, because they only get pissed off.

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 2:05 am
by Gin-Ryu
ReasonWhyNot wrote:
Putting on airs? What's so difficult about playing Policenauts? Anyone could play it. It's not a very difficult game to understand (in fact, it's not much of a game at all)
It's easy to play the problem is understanding what's happening with all that Japanese.
I managed to finish Hokuto no Ken for PSX because I knew what was going on and what the character's said from the manga but I won't try to play Policenauts again with a little knowledge of japnese

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 8:16 am
by Johnny Undaunted
Gin-Ryu wrote:
ReasonWhyNot wrote:
Putting on airs? What's so difficult about playing Policenauts? Anyone could play it. It's not a very difficult game to understand (in fact, it's not much of a game at all)
It's easy to play the problem is understanding what's happening with all that Japanese.
I managed to finish Hokuto no Ken for PSX because I knew what was going on and what the character's said from the manga but I won't try to play Policenauts again with a little knowledge of japnese
I think he meant the actual gameplay, not the language barrier. :p

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:14 pm
by Szczepaniak
ReasonWhyNot wrote:I highly doubt in this day and age that much of a fuss would be made over this type of game.
Attitudes like that are the reason why adventure games, like those by LucasArts, today are dead. :(

I miss old fashioned Policenauts/Snatcher/Sam and Max/Broken Sword graphic adventures with 2D graphics. :(

When someone invents a time machine, call me! I have the hawaiin shirts and full grown mullet ready and waiting. ;)

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:13 pm
by Artemio
otaku84 wrote:Attitudes like that are the reason why adventure games, like those by LucasArts, today are dead. :(

I miss old fashioned Policenauts/Snatcher/Sam and Max/Broken Sword graphic adventures with 2D graphics. :(
Well 90% of the posters here do so too.. but I believe that it is more a matter of taste than even of age, I am sure there are lots of posters here that are younger that I am that are happy with a "non trigger happy" game. But it is also a mater of culture (in the wide sense of the word), what you grew playing. Do I love text and graphic Adventure games....
ReasonWhyNot wrote: It's not a very difficult game to understand (in fact, it's not much of a game at all)
Wikipedia wrote:A game is a recreational activity involving one or more players. This can be defined by A) a goal that the players try to reach, B) some set of rules that determines what the players can or can not do. Games are played primarily for entertainment or enjoyment, but may also serve an educational or simulational role.
mhhh it seems to fit perfectly into the game definition... and even more so when I take into account the reason I like games.

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:33 pm
by Silvertear
Ah, man, I loved the days of 2D adventure games. 'Specially Sam and Max. Anyways, I usually have a mental checklist when I look at a new released game to see if it will sell

A. Does it involve violence?
B. Does it have a Rap soundtrack?
C. Can you "Pimp a ride"?

If no was answered to 2 of those, it won't sell.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:30 am
by ReasonWhyNot
Hey, I'm sure a lot of you have sentimental feelings about the games you played in your youth, but honestly, do you really feel compelled to play these kinds of games all the time? A game like Policenauts for instance is just a one-time playthrough for me. There's no replay value and hardly any challenge. It's more like watching a movie than playing a game. Even if you love it, you don't want to constantly play it over and over again. Maybe just play it every once in a while. And that's why these styles of gameplay are dead. You want more of an incentive to keep playing the game than this style of gameplay offers.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:53 am
by Artemio
It all depends on the reasons you buy games for. It might be for having a good experience, or for spending a lot of time you might have.

But for me, entertainment is about experiences. Eitehr a movie, a book, manga or game. When I buy them, they might be of the type "watch me/play me/read me" several times in a row... or of the "play me once now, and once again in a year".

It is like good wine, you don't want to drink it every meal and breakfast... just when you feel like it I guess.

I do agree that mainstream and casual gamers do buy or rent games to spend as much time in them as possible, and I've done so myself several times in the past, but that is not the only reason you buy or rent them. Sometimes you want to keep them and show them to people that will appreciate them, just as with movies and books. Share that experience, and specially if you don't have as much time and care more about stories.

It is mainly a marketing decision, a good adventure game won't sell as much as hack n' slash. That is a fact, and has always been so. But I believe that is a fact even in movies, a good movie won't sell as much a s a blockbuster. or in anime, what would sell more in American market for instance? Nausicaa or Pokemon?

Or as Mamoru Oshii put it (something along the lines of) I'd rather have 1 person watch (Innocence) several times, than thousands fo people watching it once.

But anyway.. you are posting on a site mainly devoted to Snatcher and Policenauts, along with the rest of Kojima works.. and I believe it will be hard for you to impose such views on the visitors of such site's forums. (Taking aside how off topic this has gone)

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:49 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
You're right that all that matters is how you want to be entertained. But I feel that the point-n-click adventures need a real level of commitment in order to play them, because it's not as simple as watching a movie or reading a book and it's not as involving as playing an actual game. So while you'll have to be focused enough on what you're doing like you would in any normal game, the gameplay doesn't do the best job of holding the player's attention. Even if I'm really caught up in the story, I still find it pretty damn tedious to just be clicking through a bunch of menus. I feel like I'd rather be watching the damn thing rather than controlling it myself. And that's not to say that the game's storytelling or writing is at fault (although I'm not the biggest fans of such in the case of Policenauts and Snatcher), because the designers do their best to make that style of gameplay work for their creations. In the days when this was all you could do in order to present a fully fleshed-out "interactive" adventure, it worked, but nowadays, it feels like handwriting a letter when you could just send an email instead (best analogy I could think of on the spot).

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:26 pm
by Artemio
Nice analogy. But the only thing thsi demosntrates is that we enjoy the type of game and you don't. And we could extend it to "the general audience doesn't enjoy this type of game". But for the record, for me (and I know I am not alone at this) it does a very good job in keeping my attention.

But it also might be a generational thing. Did you ever read "choose your own adventure" or similar books? Ever played a role playing game with dice (any kind, solo book or with others)? This is the digital version of that, interactive and fully automated. And no other type of game can give me this type of interaction and depth. Blade Runner (theionly one that comes to mind) is the best example of evultion in the type of genre, and you can say that it is the exact same mechanics, but updated (And I love that).

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:42 am
by ReasonWhyNot
Ha, yeah, I used to read those books. I thought that was a pretty inventive way to tell a story. You have so many different endings, everyone ends up satisfied. But hey, I wouldn't say no other kind of game can deliver this sort of experience. Are you simply talking about a game where the story changes depending on the type of decision you make? What about Deus Ex or Knights of the Old Republic? Those games have that kind of "choose your own path" attribute. But I'd agree it's all a generational thing. Like CD's compared to records. To each, his own.

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:47 am
by Artemio
ReasonWhyNot wrote:Are you simply talking about a game where the story changes depending on the type of decision you make?
No, having full chunks already defined and reading, is what I was talking about.

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:15 pm
by ReasonWhyNot
Snatcher wrote:No, having full chunks already defined and reading, is what I was talking about.
Then I definitely have no understanding of why you love this genre. Why not just watch a movie? That would be a whole lot more satisfying in my opinion. Playing Policenauts just made me feel like I was navigating a DVD menu. Now it might make a huge difference if I could understand Japanese, but it might not have. After all, many of you (if not all of you) who have played the game love it despite, I assume, a small knowledge of the Japanese language. Few cinematics, simple shooting sections, little to no replay value, and an average storyline from what I got out of it. Why should this be considered Kojima's masterpiece when he's created an entirely new genre altogether that looks as though will never die out. Metal Gear Solid offers multiple ways to play the game, real cutscenes, and real gameplay for that matter. I won't compare stories, art direction (though nothing can top MGS1's atmosphere), anything else, because it's not even important when comparing the Metal Gear series to Policenauts or Snatcher, no matter how great they're perceived by the fans. And I'm not looking at Metal Gear from a fan's perspective. I'm just being realistic. I played through Snatcher and Policenauts only twice each. I didn't want to play them anymore after that. But I still play the Metal Gear games like it was my first time ever.

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:13 pm
by Artemio
ReasonWhyNot wrote:Then I definitely have no understanding of why you love this genre.
I believe that is as far as understanding will go. ^^ Anyway, way too off topic. Closed. If you wish to further discuss this, open a thread that is just about this.