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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:01 pm
by Spike
Would someone mind providing me a "ranking guide" for Metal Gear 1&2 as well as for the MG2 boss survival mode ? I've looked about everywhere, but found nothing. :???:

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:30 pm
by FOX
Spike wrote:Would someone mind providing me a "ranking guide" for Metal Gear 1&2 as well as for the MG2 boss survival mode ? I've looked about everywhere, but found nothing. :???:
Well, I can help you with that (sort of). When I played the game for the first time I had the same problem as you, it was no guide that listed the ranking guide. So I decided to test my skill in Metal Gear to get the Big Boss ranking myself. This is the result.

http://www.listmygames.net/bilder_medle ... 517158.JPG

To get the highest ranking you probably must have a total minimum in the game, that means 0 of everything exept alert mode. 0 saves, 0 continues, 0 humans killed, 9 alert modes and 0 rations. I will list the different requriments.

Difficulty: The highest ranking you get in Easy is Eagle and the highest in Original is Big Boss. There are some differences between the modes. In Easy, you take double the life and have double of any ammunition. The only other difference is that in many places the double "!" is not there.

Play time: I think the maximum time is 1 hour. It is easy to get thou. In all my 17 play times all but 3 was over 1 hour.

Save: 0. The game is easy so if you follow the same path you should fix the game. Horever, one mistake and you have blown it.

Continue: 0. The easiest one. Learn not to die and you really should be fine.

Alert mode: 9. This is the minimum number of alert modes. The absolute minimum in the game is 8, but then you meet the scorpions without the cure. In Easy, the minimum is 10, because in one part a enemy only has a single "!" instead of two "!!". I am not sure that the minimum is in this part.

Humans killed: 0. As you can se, it is easy not to kill anyone. All you need to do is learn how they walk and punch some people to stun them. The bosses does not count as killes!

Rations used: 0-1. This is the really hardest part. If you look at my picture you see a red line in the right of my lifebar. I was only hit once after getting rank 4. You see, in the end of the game you walk through a electric wall, and my lifebar was at the red line when I walked in that room. I took the shortest path in that electric room. I do not know if you get Big Boss in a minimum game exept 1 ration.

Ps: Nice first post? I maybe stay in this forum ^^

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:04 am
by Spike
Okay. Thank you so much for the detailled answer.

Yeah ^^.

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:23 am
by Jack
FOX wrote:
Spike wrote:Would someone mind providing me a "ranking guide" for Metal Gear 1&2 as well as for the MG2 boss survival mode ? I've looked about everywhere, but found nothing. :???:
Well, I can help you with that (sort of). When I played the game for the first time I had the same problem as you, it was no guide that listed the ranking guide. So I decided to test my skill in Metal Gear to get the Big Boss ranking myself. This is the result.

http://www.listmygames.net/bilder_medle ... 517158.JPG

To get the highest ranking you probably must have a total minimum in the game, that means 0 of everything exept alert mode. 0 saves, 0 continues, 0 humans killed, 9 alert modes and 0 rations. I will list the different requriments.

Difficulty: The highest ranking you get in Easy is Eagle and the highest in Original is Big Boss. There are some differences between the modes. In Easy, you take double the life and have double of any ammunition. The only other difference is that in many places the double "!" is not there.

Play time: I think the maximum time is 1 hour. It is easy to get thou. In all my 17 play times all but 3 was over 1 hour.

Save: 0. The game is easy so if you follow the same path you should fix the game. Horever, one mistake and you have blown it.

Continue: 0. The easiest one. Learn not to die and you really should be fine.

Alert mode: 9. This is the minimum number of alert modes. The absolute minimum in the game is 8, but then you meet the scorpions without the cure. In Easy, the minimum is 10, because in one part a enemy only has a single "!" instead of two "!!". I am not sure that the minimum is in this part.

Humans killed: 0. As you can se, it is easy not to kill anyone. All you need to do is learn how they walk and punch some people to stun them. The bosses does not count as killes!

Rations used: 0-1. This is the really hardest part. If you look at my picture you see a red line in the right of my lifebar. I was only hit once after getting rank 4. You see, in the end of the game you walk through a electric wall, and my lifebar was at the red line when I walked in that room. I took the shortest path in that electric room. I do not know if you get Big Boss in a minimum game exept 1 ration.

Ps: Nice first post? I maybe stay in this forum ^^
Nice post indeed! Thanks, this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for - except, I need some advice on Solid Snake. I'm playing it and I wonder what's the absolute minimum alert you can get. I see you trigger the alert when you get to the stairs to reach roof 20. and also in the mannequins room it's easy to get spotted.

Also, those three guards before the night vision goggle room... Is there a way to get past them without killing? My goal is also the absolute minimum (0) kills, if possible.

Were those ending stats present in the MSX original, or have they been introduced in Subsistence?

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:29 am
by Spike
Jack wrote:Were those ending stats present in the MSX original, or have they been introduced in Subsistence?
There was no ranking system in any of the original MG games.

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:30 am
by mca2
After I got my hands on MGS:PO for the PSP, I decided it was time to replay the MSX originals. So I started at the beginning. Now I'm playing Metal Gear on my PSP, and man it's cool again.

But now I'm horribly stuck at the Bulltank. How the hell did I do this 15 years ago? There's no way I can get 8 grenades in this thing before it hits me. If I leave the room and come back, its position is reset, but so is its damage level... any hints?

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:13 am
by Spike
Osiris wrote:As someone who's played every version of the game in both languages, I can say that the original's (MGS1's) translation was better than TS's. Mantis's "It feels kind of...nostalgic" still kills me, in addition to making me laugh.
I've finally found an answer about that line :

http://www.geocities.com/muni_shinobu/m ... tary1.html

Mantis : "懐かしい…感覚が…する… There's a... nostalgic... feeling to it..."
Mantis' last words. With his last bit of strength, he helps Snake. The nostalgic feeling he is experiencing is the emotions of his mother. Mantis' mother died giving birth to him, she is using her last bit of strength to help Mantis live. At the moment of his birth, Mantis sensed his mother's emotions, and that's the feeling he is remembering at this moment. Because he is doing the same thing as his mother, helping someone else at the dying breath.

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:19 am
by Henry Spencer
"It feels...kind of...nice" is still a far more powerful and effective line to me.

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:28 pm
by Marc
mca2 wrote:After I got my hands on MGS:PO for the PSP, I decided it was time to replay the MSX originals. So I started at the beginning. Now I'm playing Metal Gear on my PSP, and man it's cool again.

But now I'm horribly stuck at the Bulltank. How the hell did I do this 15 years ago? There's no way I can get 8 grenades in this thing before it hits me. If I leave the room and come back, its position is reset, but so is its damage level... any hints?
If I remember right, you need to push it back with the rocket launcher when it gets too close.
Spike wrote:I've finally found an answer about that line :

http://www.geocities.com/muni_shinobu/m ... tary1.html

Mantis : "懐かしい…感覚が…する… There's a... nostalgic... feeling to it..."
Mantis' last words. With his last bit of strength, he helps Snake. The nostalgic feeling he is experiencing is the emotions of his mother. Mantis' mother died giving birth to him, she is using her last bit of strength to help Mantis live. At the moment of his birth, Mantis sensed his mother's emotions, and that's the feeling he is remembering at this moment. Because he is doing the same thing as his mother, helping someone else at the dying breath.
I agree with Henry, I find it a little awkward. I don't know, it just seems like he's putting too much effort into his dying breath.

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:33 pm
by Charlie Johnson
Osiris wrote:
mca2 wrote:After I got my hands on MGS:PO for the PSP, I decided it was time to replay the MSX originals. So I started at the beginning. Now I'm playing Metal Gear on my PSP, and man it's cool again.

But now I'm horribly stuck at the Bulltank. How the hell did I do this 15 years ago? There's no way I can get 8 grenades in this thing before it hits me. If I leave the room and come back, its position is reset, but so is its damage level... any hints?
If I remember right, you need to push it back with the rocket launcher when it gets too close.
You don't even have the rocket launcher, when you get to the bulldozer.

There is no trick, you just got to be fast, start shooting those grenades at him, as soon as you enter the room.

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:44 pm
by Marc
Yeah, I didn't think you had the rocket launcher that early. But I remember being able to do something to slow it down... Maybe plant landmines?

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:54 pm
by Charlie Johnson
Osiris wrote:Yeah, I didn't think you had the rocket launcher that early. But I remember being able to do something to slow it down... Maybe plant landmines?
Nope, they didn't help either and if you plant them you certanly won't have enough time, to destroy it with grenades. And besides, it's not really necessary, even if it's a little tricky, if you shoot the grenades as soon as you've entered the room it isn't that hard to beat him. And besides, it doesn't have to be a direct hit, just the explosion nearby. That will do full damage too.

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:09 pm
by Marc
I guess he knows what he has to do now, then. :smile:

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:17 pm
by mca2
Yeah, I know what to do, but it doesn't really work. If i start firing as soon as i get in, it seems i'm to far away. I assume that if the tank 'flashes' it takes a hit, which it doesn't at the first shots.
Image
(yea, the colours are somewhat off)
Anyway, i pump in all i have, i manage 8 or 10 but most of the time the last 2 are behind the tank. So i get run over, or i run in and out and start over again...

It's starting to get quite annoying, but i guess i'll keep trying.

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:49 am
by Charlie Johnson
mca2 wrote:Yeah, I know what to do, but it doesn't really work. If i start firing as soon as i get in, it seems i'm to far away. I assume that if the tank 'flashes' it takes a hit, which it doesn't at the first shots.
Image
(yea, the colours are somewhat off)
Anyway, i pump in all i have, i manage 8 or 10 but most of the time the last 2 are behind the tank. So i get run over, or i run in and out and start over again...

It's starting to get quite annoying, but i guess i'll keep trying.
Just try to shoot, so that the first two grenades aren't a direct hit, they just have to detonate in front of the tank. Then you sould have enough space to hit him with another six grenades.

Also, which version are you playing? The original MSX2 version, or the PS2 Subsistence version?

Even if the difficulty in the Subsistence version was a little toned down, (And I'm not talking about the easy difficulty, even the original difficulty isn't as hard, as the original MSX2 version, so it isn't really the original difficulty.) this particular boss is a little harder in the PS2 version, because he's faster. In the MSX2 version I never had any problems.

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:37 am
by mca2
Charlie Johnson wrote: [...]

Just try to shoot, so that the first two grenades aren't a direct hit, they just have to detonate in front of the tank. Then you sould have enough space to hit him with another six grenades.

Also, which version are you playing? The original MSX2 version, or the PS2 Subsistence version?

Even if the difficulty in the Subsistence version was a little toned down, (And I'm not talking about the easy difficulty, even the original difficulty isn't as hard, as the original MSX2 version, so it isn't really the original difficulty.) this particular boss is a little harder in the PS2 version, because he's faster. In the MSX2 version I never had any problems.
I'm playing the original version (on a psp). I i tried it dozens of times now, but it doesn't work. I get 4 direct hits and some in front and behind the tank, but nothing. I tried firing as soon as i walked in, i tried firing after first walking forward and bit and then moving back, but all with no luck. I might dig up my old Sony MSX2 and tried it there, it's getting quite frustrating now.

Hmm, and didn't know MG was on the Subsistance CD as well.. another good reason to buy it i guess.

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:23 pm
by 87th
mca2 wrote: Hmm, and didn't know MG was on the Subsistance CD as well.. another good reason to buy it i guess.
And MG2:SS, too! Both based on the recent(ish) Japanese mobile phone versions, with very good new translations (some names are changed a bit, but it's not too annoying). They both have new selectable difficulty modes, and a couple of unlockables when you complete them. There's also minor gameplay tweaks to speed things up a bit.
As one of the biggest MetalGear 2: Solid Snake fans on Junker HQ, It proves Konami have done a really good job when I give the ports such high praise.

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:33 pm
by Charlie Johnson
The best things about the Subsistence port is that MG2:SS actually runs fast.
In the MSX2 original there are severe slowdowns, almost everytime when there are 3 - 4 enemys on the radar screen...which basically happens most of the time.
The only thing that's missing the Subsistence port is Sean Connery and I didn't like Gray Fox's new characterportrait.

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:57 pm
by 87th
Charlie Johnson wrote:The best things about the Subsistence port is that MG2:SS actually runs fast.
In the MSX2 original there are severe slowdowns, almost everytime when there are 3 - 4 enemys on the radar screen...which basically happens most of the time.
What are you running it on? It seems fine on both my Sony MSX2 HitBit and BlueMSX on my laptop.

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:28 pm
by Jack
Wow, I did myself a good christmas gift - I just finished SS for my first time.

I'm writing down the results here:

Difficulty: Normal
Play Time: 4:23:13
Save: 32
Continue: 1 (well, just because I fell in the trap while waiting for Charlie, and didn't want to fight Big Boss again - I was too excited to see the end!)
Alert mode: 2 (one is mandatory - on the stairs from roof 10 to 20. The other one... perhaps while I was running with Holly at the end.)
Humans Killed: 18 (learned way too late the awesome "two-punch stun" technique)
Rations used: 10
Special item: not used

Code Name: Zebra

What more can I say - awesome masterpiece, blew me out.

But...
Spoiler:
What is a RENAMO soldier? Where exactly Snake "did fight" with FOX (as he says to Kasler via codec)? And - wasn't Big Boss supposed to reveal his true identity to his son?

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:52 pm
by Spike
Jack wrote:
Spoiler:
What is a RENAMO soldier?
And - wasn't Big Boss supposed to reveal his true identity to his son?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RENAMO

Yes.
It wasn't in the original MSX2 version and they forgot to add a line about that relationship to "cover up" the retcon made in MGS1.

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:24 pm
by Marc
I don't see why he has to reveal it in SS. He could've told him at any time, and they wouldn't necessarily have to bring it up in either game.

Just playing the Kojima apologist. :D

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:23 pm
by Skycladiana
Kojima's probably planning on making good on the retcon in a seemingly inevitable future rerelease. Simply adding an "I am your father" into the original MSX game wouldn't really do much good, though the same could be said for updating the character images. Really, I'm hoping Kojima does full remakes of the original games either on the PSP or the Wii it wouldn't make much sense to do them for the PS2 or the 360, as in this case it might be better for continuity if MG and MG2:SS remained in the same technological territory as all of the PS2/NGC titles.

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:39 pm
by Marc
But isn't that how it's going to end up? The only continuity errors I can think of off the top of my head are the father-son link and some Gray Fox details, and the only way Big Boss is going to tell Snake who he is is the way you described it. Is it worth remaking 2 games just to correct some dialogue (especially when it's simply going to match the later games, and we therefore know the details)?

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:58 pm
by Skycladiana
I definitely believe it's worth it. Storytelling is at least half of what Kojima's work is about, and as they stand right now the original MG games might show the best storytelling possible under MSX circumstances, but they pale in comparison to later generation work-- the first game especially. Remember, there's more narrative questions left by Kojima's recent games than just the Gray Fox/Big Boss continuity discrepencies. Now that we know about the Philosophers/<B>Patriots</B> during the time of MGS3 and MPO, I'm curious to see how they and other characters/organizations fit in to the Outer Heaven/Zanzibar Land episodes. Also, it wouldn't hurt to help the games better fit into actual historical contexts the way all the other games at least attempt to do, that is unless somebody wants to tell me that it wasn't until the late 90's that the Cold War ended, during which the world's supply of oil suddenly dried up for no apparent reason.