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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:09 pm
by Marc
What's the timestamp for it? The Japanese "r" can sound like an "l" sometimes.

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:28 pm
by ratperson665
Osiris wrote:What's the timestamp for it? The Japanese "r" can sound like an "l" sometimes.
Thanks for clearing that up. It was really baffling me. But back on topic, those trailers were fantastic! They left me wanting more!!

Re: Something I noticed (kinda off topic)

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:41 pm
by Artemio
ratperson665 wrote:I was watching the 3DO version trailer (great job by the way) and at one point I heard a VA use the letter L, but I thought the Japanese didn't have that letter. I know it's trivial, but it's definitely puzzling.
I am no expert in the topic, and most probably not the best explaining but let's try. In Japanese l and r are very close in sound in various words, but it is really neither of them. It is either ら、れ、り、る or ろ. saying it is an "r" or "l" is just a transliteration, an assignment of sorts. If you know any other language you know that words aren't really equivalent between them, they are just approximations. Think of this R assignment to the Japanese language as such, or as both R and L.

Re: Something I noticed (kinda off topic)

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:19 pm
by ratperson665
Snatcher wrote:
ratperson665 wrote:I was watching the 3DO version trailer (great job by the way) and at one point I heard a VA use the letter L, but I thought the Japanese didn't have that letter. I know it's trivial, but it's definitely puzzling.
I am no expert in the topic, and most probably not the best explaining but let's try. In Japanese l and r are very close in sound in various words, but it is really neither of them. It is either ら、れ、り、る or ろ. saying it is an "r" or "l" is just a transliteration, an assignment of sorts. If you know any other language you know that words aren't really equivalent between them, they are just approximations. Think of this R assignment to the Japanese language as such, or as both R and L.
Thanks again.

Re: Something I noticed (kinda off topic)

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:30 pm
by Marc
Snatcher wrote:
ratperson665 wrote:I was watching the 3DO version trailer (great job by the way) and at one point I heard a VA use the letter L, but I thought the Japanese didn't have that letter. I know it's trivial, but it's definitely puzzling.
I am no expert in the topic, and most probably not the best explaining but let's try. In Japanese l and r are very close in sound in various words, but it is really neither of them. It is either ら、れ、り、る or ろ. saying it is an "r" or "l" is just a transliteration, an assignment of sorts. If you know any other language you know that words aren't really equivalent between them, they are just approximations. Think of this R assignment to the Japanese language as such, or as both R and L.
That's right, transcribing it as /r/ is just a device to give speakers of other languages an approximation of what the sound is like. In reality the Japanese /r/ is really neither English /r/ nor /l/ but a different sound altogether -- the alveolar liquid. Place your tongue on the ridge behind your teeth. That's where the sound is made (usually as a flap).

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:24 am
by MetalGearAlex
*Throw in my two cents here*

The positioning of the tongue are VERY similar in pronouncing "r" and "l"

L is touching the top teeth and R is a litte lower than touching the middle of the roof of your mouth.

"Would you rike flied lice with that?"

Hey! I beat the game!

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:52 am
by dlfrsilver
Yes they "mispronounce" some letters :

isaBeLLa VeLVet -> isaVeRa BeRuBeto

GiLLian Seed -> GiRian SHEEdO

B -> V and V -> B and L -> R

there are some more exemples....

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:40 pm
by The Hero
Spike wrote:
The Hero wrote:I love the trailers for Kojimas games. Especially the english ones for ZOE2 (the one that was also used as the games intro)
I "hated" that one, because I watched it before playing the game and it basically spoiled me the whole thing ! It shows the entire plot ! :???: Well done nonetheless. But still.
Yeah, i remember hearing people warning me not to watch the intro when i bought ZOE 2, because of the spoilers. But i watched it anyway, when i saw that it was the trailer that i knew and loved.
To tell you the truth, i never thought that it spoiled anything for me. But that's just me, i'm a little slow. :razz:

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:07 am
by Junker-2045
Great trailers guys. At first I thought you guys made the trailers from scratch yourself and was complementing you on how they were put together like other Kojima trailers :razz: but they are still great nonetheless and have made me even more hyped to play the game when I'll understand everything properly.

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:43 pm
by Marc
Junker-2045 wrote:Great trailers guys. At first I thought you guys made the trailers from scratch yourself and was complementing you on how they were put together like other Kojima trailers :razz: but they are still great nonetheless and have made me even more hyped to play the game when I'll understand everything properly.
I actually do want to do an original trailer sometime. I have it planned out in my head.

Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:09 am
by Snatcher42
Osiris wrote:I actually do want to do an original trailer sometime. I have it planned out in my head.
Hey, let me know if you want help with that. Editing and post-production is what I do for a living.

Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:42 am
by Marc
Snatcher42 wrote:
Osiris wrote:I actually do want to do an original trailer sometime. I have it planned out in my head.
Hey, let me know if you want help with that. Editing and post-production is what I do for a living.
Thanks for the offer. :) I don't know if it'll happen, but I'll let you know if it does.

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:41 pm
by mintsauce
dlfrsilver wrote:Yes they "mispronounce" some letters :

isaBeLLa VeLVet -> isaVeRa BeRuBeto

GiLLian Seed -> GiRian SHEEdO

B -> V and V -> B and L -> R

there are some more exemples....
Vs generally become Bs, but Bs never become Vs as Vs do not exist in Japanese. They sometimes use ヴィ (modified U with a small I) to denote a V at the start of some words.

Words ending with T and D generally end up getting an "o" slapped on the end, e.g. "foodo", "wanto", because 95% of Japanese letters end in a vowel sound. When speaking English, it takes a little time for some Japanese people to get out of the habit of making these extra vowel sounds on the end.

W sounds are tricky, and are often missed out, e.g. "woman" might sound like "ooman".

Rs and Ls all become a R/L kana sound. Which one is used depends on what word you are trying to say, e.g. "level" would be レベル, and "love" would be ラブ.

"qu" and "cr" sounds are tricky too. Basically any English sound that does not involve the use of vowels is impossible to write in Japanese without it sounding slightly strange.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:41 am
by Crowley
Now that we're on the subject, why is there some confusion between 's' and 'th'? The most famous example is probably Aeris/Aerith from Final Fantasy 7.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:33 am
by Henry Spencer
Also, is there no letter 'o' in the language. (Hence 'Randam' and 'Madnar'?)

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:14 am
by mintsauce
Henry Spencer wrote:Also, is there no letter 'o' in the language. (Hence 'Randam' and 'Madnar'?)
Sorry, but that's not true. Os are common in Japanese.

They spell it "Randam" ランダム because it is closer to the sound of the second syllable in "Random". When we say it, it sounds more like "Randum", not "Ran-dom". In fact, the sound we make is an unstressed vowel (like the A in England, the U in Forum, or the O in Lesson). Unstressed vowels do not exist in Japanese - every vowel sound is the same. Therefore, they sometimes have to make approximations because translating by letters rather than sounds would sound wrong.

Crowley, to answer your question, there is no Th sound in Japanese. Japanese people sometimes substitute an S or Z when trying to pronounce it. Aerith's name was originally meant to be spelt with a Th, and someone on the translation team interpreted it as Aeris (which is only natural, as in katakana it is spelt エアリス, e-a-ri-su), and thus it was changed in all translated versions. Both are correct really - the original Japanese spelling can be interpreted as either "Aerith" or "Aeris" when spoken in English.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:05 am
by Henry Spencer
Okay, it was supposed to be a question, you answered it anyway. Thanks.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:13 am
by Marc
My guess is the name was changed in the localization because they thought Random looked better and was less confusing than Randam. I prefer the original, since Madnar was supposedly a reference to how he was a mad scientist-type of guy.

Japanese is a lot more consistent and simple than English, both in morphology and syntax. Heh, not orthography, though. That's probably the biggest obstacle to learning the language.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:19 pm
by Henry Spencer
Oh yeah, English can be the most complex language to learn for some, like my friend who was Chinese, took him around three years to speak the language confidently, even to this day, he asks me now and again 'what does ... mean?' You know, I think English is just one of those languages you either get or don't. Not to mention the fact that you Americans adapted our language and changed things even more, making it even more confusing! :P

'Color' instead of 'colour' and 'vacation' instead of 'holiday' etc etc.

Not to mention the fact that english has so many slang terms common nowadays here in England, each city has its own slang, it can become such a chore even for people like myself to keep up with them all. :lol:

But yeah, Japanese is one complicated language as well, I can imagine, jeez.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:02 pm
by Lunat
Can you say what ~percentage of translation project and when it comes :grin:

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:59 pm
by Henry Spencer
The guys don't know yet, the person working on the patch is from outside the forums. Meaning they probably won't know. It'll be ready when it's ready. Be patient dude. 8)

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:22 pm
by Marc
What Henry said.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:38 pm
by Kojima_Devotee
Yeah, just keep the projected "Late 2007" date in mind. If you need more incentive to wait, re-read the magazine scans. :grin:

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:02 pm
by cidsa
Nice trailers! I know I'm responding pretty late but.. >.>
I'm glad to see this is still moving along, I wasn't sure if this project was still alive or not. Keep at it :D

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:18 am
by Marc
We'll keep at it until it's finished, don't worry. :)