Any questions?

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Any questions?

Post by Marc »

I got a hold of the scenario books of the MGS series a couple of months ago, which not only contain the scripts but stage notes and other insight as well. I was thinking if anyone had any questions about lines or behaviour or storyline tidbits or whatever, I could look at the scripts and see if there's any extra information in them for you. I can't count the times I've gone "Oh..." while going through them.
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Post by Artemio »

Sure I do! regarding the conversation that Raiden had with GW... you know which there are several quetsions, but the real question would be.. what notes are there?

My questions might be more related with the intentions, and also with who he was rtalking to (JFK) and what it was supposed to be...

I don't want to go into to omuch detail.. firts it would be a question of what is available...

I do have the books, but I believe my Japanese is not good enoughto tackle trying to read that part of the dialogue.
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Post by Marc »

Which part of the game do you mean?
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Post by Johnny Undaunted »

I'm wondering if some of the stuff MGS: Official Mission Handbook, but not in any other sources, is mentioned in the Scenario Books.

I.E: Is Decoy Octopus really Mexican (it's mentioned in MGA2)? Is Big Boss a Japanese-American born in Hawaii? Did Otacon create a Metal Gear Mk. II in the past (before the one in MGS4)? Is Fortune's husband named Reginald? Stuff like that.
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Post by Spike »

MGS1
- Solid Snake's hair color during the Briefing (Is it blonde or brown ?)
- Naomi Hunter (just before being arrested) : I just wanted to let you know that... No, that's not the whole truth... the real thing that I wanted to tell you was... Snake, I... I... - Did she mean "I love you" ?
- Is there a deep meaning for Liquid Snake's tattoo ?
- Is there any additionnal information about Gray Fox's "red eye" and "laser gun arm" ?

MGS2
- Is there any additionnal information about Olga's pregnancy (Who's the father ?) ?
- Is Ocelot talking to President Johnson or to Solidus at the end of the Tanker Chapter ?
- Is there any explanation for Vamp's powers ?
- Did Fortune deviate the missiles launched by Ocelot on top of Arsenal Gear because the <B>Patriots</B> reactivated her hi-tech gizmo or because of her true powers ?
- Liquid Snake : Why do you think I chose Ocelot as my host ? (and the Liquid-possessed arm subject in general)
- Did Solidus actually say something before jumping to his death ?
- How could Snake go so fast to the Federal Hall (Did Otacon pick him up with the Kamov ?) ?

MGS3
- Why did Ocelot screw up at Rassvet during the Virtuous Mission (there's a contradiction in the English dialogs) ? Was the bullet he intented to shoot a blank ?
- Is there any additional information about the Cobras/Volgin/Zero/Sigint/Para-Medic (first names, past, feat of arms, origin of their powers, ...) ?
- Are the following tidbits mentioned in the MGS3 Scenario Book ?
(Volgin was a former boxing champion, Major Zero's real first name is David, Para-Medic divorced).
- Is The Boss's/Naked Snake's bandana really the same that is worn by Solid Snake ?
- Did Volgin die because the ammo belts he wore exploded when he was struck by a thunder or because of the thunder itself ?
- When we see The Sorrow and The Boss disappearing after the latter's death, do they disappear for ever ?
- Why does the red petal Naked Snake took after The Boss's death becomes white again when he lets it go ? What's the symbolism behind that scene ?
- Is Ocelot's appearance outside the White House an "hallucination" made by Big Boss or is he really there ?
- Was it Naked Snake who asked for a grave for The Boss to be made ?
- Is there any additionnal information about EVA's scar and fate ?
- What's the deal with the true and the fake Philosophers' Legacy ?

Finally, is there any rare references (that scene/character/... is inspired by ...) in the 3 Scenario Books ?

Sorry for the numerous questions and thanks a lot in advance.
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Post by 87th »

Spike wrote: - Liquid Snake : Why do you think I chose Ocelot as my host ? (and the Liquid-possessed arm subject in general)
I assume it's because he's The Sorrow's son, so the ability to link to the world of the dead lies dormant in him.
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Post by Johnny Undaunted »

87th wrote:
Spike wrote: - Liquid Snake : Why do you think I chose Ocelot as my host ? (and the Liquid-possessed arm subject in general)
I assume it's because he's The Sorrow's son, so the ability to link to the world of the dead lies dormant in him.
Nope. The Sorrow wasn't created when Kojima made MGS2. :razz:
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Post by Artemio »

But it sounds like a nice piece of retcon, or Kojima covering his back =P
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Post by Marc »

Okay, I'll take these in order here.

Snatcher, I don't know if I can help you much. The script in the Document of MGS2 is an exact translation of the scenario book (the script used to make the game). There were a few interesting tidbits about the conversation between Raiden and JFK.

First, Rose's line, "You have to beLIEve me!" was set out in the Japanese version. It says, "In the English version, she should use the word beLIEve."

Then the Colonel's, "Our beloved monsters -- enjoy yourselves" is supposed to invoke Houseman's final line to Snake in MGS1. He originally calls Snake and Liquid, "Ghosts from a bygone administration" when he signs off, but this was dropped for some reason. So in 1 they're ghosts, in 2 they're monsters.

If you have any specific questions about lines that are confusing in that conversation, maybe I can help.

One other thing I noticed is in the Tanker Chapter, Liquid calls Snake "solid ivory" (slang for the word "idiot") when he says in the English version, "You don’t have what it takes after all."
Johnny Undaunted wrote:I'm wondering if some of the stuff MGS: Official Mission Handbook, but not in any other sources, is mentioned in the Scenario Books.

I.E: Is Decoy Octopus really Mexican (it's mentioned in MGA2)? Is Big Boss a Japanese-American born in Hawaii? Did Otacon create a Metal Gear Mk. II in the past (before the one in MGS4)? Is Fortune's husband named Reginald? Stuff like that.
I'm afraid they don't mention any of those. But about Big Boss - since Raven comments on Snake's eastern blood, he could very well be a Japanese-American.

Spike here are your answers.

MGS1:

1. It doesn't say, but it does say he's completely naked and his body is covered in scars. The original briefing was very different. It had other shots interspersed throughout it. Here are some examples:

Snake: That's what you call sending armed soldiers after me?

Flashback - cut of soldiers forcing Snake into helicopter.

Campbell: No, at this point they're still video conferencing with each other.

Cut of the President holding video conference in the White House.

Things like that. Some survived as the pictures we see on screen during the briefing. I think it turned out better without the cuts.

2. It doesn't specifically say that, but it does say she "makes up her mind to tell Snake something". There also comments throughout the game about how she is impressed and surprised by Snake's concern for Meryl, among other things. Incidentally, when Snake tells them he's worried about Meryl because of the PAL key when she goes missing, it says he's actually worried about her.

3. It doesn't mention his tattoo.

4. It also doesn't mention the cause of his red vision or where he got his laser gun.

MGS2:

1. It says she's about 3 months pregnant, but says we don't know who the father is.

2. Solidus.

3. No.

4. It's supposed to be real powers she has.

5. It doesn't say how he's controlling Ocelot, only that he is.

6. All is has is, like the Document:

Solidus:
...

7. It says Snake was picked up by Otacon, yes.

MGS3:

1. I'm not sure what you mean by contradiction. Ocelot was supposed to be meeting The Boss there, or so Volgin told him. His line, "So this is the legendary Boss?" was the password.

2. Not really. The script isn't so much about listing profiles when a new character comes up.

3. None of those are mentioned.

4. It doesn't even mention Snake grabbing The Boss's bandanna when he falls of the bridge. There are a few other interesting bits about this scene. When she asks, "...Is he crying?" The Sorrow whispers into her ear, "I'm here." And when she says, "Wait. He's my apprentice. I'll take care of him" the word designated in the script to use is son, not apprentice.

5. The lightning killed him instantly it says.

6. Well, they're both dead and that's them passed on, kinda like Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars. It says The Sorrow no longer has any tears of blood.

7. It doesn't give its own explanation.

8. It doesn't mention the Ocelot FPV scene at all.

9. It doesn't say.

10. Nothing additional said.

11. Mmm, it just says that Eva gets the fake film. When The Boss gives him the film and says, "It's our only hope," the "our" refers to the US and not the Philosophers.

Another interesting note: Ocelot's "Bitch!!" to Eva is him accidentally losing character and speaking like an American (foreshadowing).

I'll skim through the books and add any other interesting bits I find.
Last edited by Marc on Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Spike »

Osiris wrote:Then the Colonel's, "Our beloved monsters -- enjoy yourselves" is supposed to invoke Houseman's final line to Snake in MGS1. He originally calls Snake and Liquid, "Ghosts from a bygone administration" when he signs off, but this was dropped for some reason.
However this can be found in the In the Darkness of Shadow Moses rendition of the dialog : "Then rest in peace -- you are a ghost of the Cold War, after all."
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Post by Marc »

Right, the dialogue is the same but the translations are different.
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Post by Spike »

Osiris wrote:1. I'm not sure what you mean. Ocelot was supposed to be meeting The Boss there, or so Volgin told him. His line, "So this is the legendary Boss?" was the password.

I'll skim through the books and add any other interesting bits I find.
I meant the mistake he made (with the bullet) which allowed Snake to "own" him.

Thank you very much for the quick and detailled answer as well as the supplementary tidbits. :grin:

I just have one last question (I ask you this because someone said I "made up" an information) : on that page, it's written that The Boss's horse is called Andalousie. Is that true or is it a translation mistake (and the original text would read "an Andalusian horse") ?
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Post by Marc »

That was a genuine mistake Ocelot made when he tried to use the trick of ejecting the first bullet manually. He was going to kill Snake after he realized he wasn't The Boss.

As for the horse, it's an Andalusian, as in the breed.
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Post by Artemio »

Sure I did have some doubts with specific dialogue

I assume that, from what you said before about this being the same as in the Document, the following phrase refers to JFK as well.
MGS2 wrote:Colonel: Only GW...

And regarding:
MGS2 wrote:Colonel: To begin with -- we're not what you'd call -- human.
Over the past two hundred years --
A kind of consciousness formed layer by layer in the crucible of the White House.
It's not unlike the way life started in the oceans four billion years ago.
The White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution --
We are formless. We are the very discipline and morality that Americans invoke so often.
How can anyone hope to eliminate us? As long as this nation exists, so will we.
I assume that the White House bit is literal, as well as the evolution part and the reference of them being formless, and thus, not easy to eliminate.


I also wanted to know if this is really a reference to the T.S. poem, as I assumed:
MGS2 wrote:Colonel: And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

And finally, if the examples given during the following text are the same ones or if there were adapted for the western audience. Since I believe that education issues might.
MGS2 wrote: Colonel: The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards
development of convenient half-truths.
Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you.
Rose: Billions spent on new weapons in order to humanely murder other humans.

Colonel: Rights of criminals are given more respect than the privacy of their victims.
Rose: Although there are people suffering in poverty, huge donations are made to protect endangered species.
Everyone grows up being told the same thing.
Colonel: Be nice to other people.
Rose: But beat out the competition!
Colonel: "You're special." "Believe in yourself and you will succeed."
Rose: But it's obvious from the start that only a few can succeed...
I am interested in some of those since the meme word is never used during the game, and I assumed he was talking about memes when I wrote the essay. Nevertheless, the theme of the game retconned as memes but nothing was made specific. It has never been specified if the <B>Patriots</B> see themselves as memetic manipulators as I assumed, or if the point was simply to give the idea of how much of the game was meme related.
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Post by Marc »

Snatcher wrote:Sure I did have some doubts with specific dialogue

I assume that, from what you said before about this being the same as in the Document, the following phrase refers to JFK as well.
MGS2 wrote:Colonel: Only GW...
Right, it's just like Document says. GW was destroyed and this Colonel is from JFK.

Snatcher wrote:And regarding:
MGS2 wrote:Colonel: To begin with -- we're not what you'd call -- human.
Over the past two hundred years --
A kind of consciousness formed layer by layer in the crucible of the White House.
It's not unlike the way life started in the oceans four billion years ago.
The White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution --
We are formless. We are the very discipline and morality that Americans invoke so often.
How can anyone hope to eliminate us? As long as this nation exists, so will we.
I assume that the White House bit is literal, as well as the evolution part and the reference of them being formless, and thus, not easy to eliminate.
The only difference is the line, "The White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution." In the original text, it has "(The corruption in) the White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution." The parentheses are used as notes to clarify points. Maybe the translator should have worked them into the text.
Snatcher wrote:I also wanted to know if this is really a reference to the T.S. poem, as I assumed:
MGS2 wrote:Colonel: And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.
The poem is not mentioned next to it, but it is possible Kojima is alluding to it. Here's the line in Japanese:

それが世界を終わらせるのだ。緩やかに。

Literally:
That (the world being engulfed in truth) will end the world. Gently.

Every Japanese translation I could find contrasts the bang and the whimper in the final line. It's hard to say for certain.
Snatcher wrote:And finally, if the examples given during the following text are the same ones or if there were adapted for the western audience. Since I believe that education issues might.
MGS2 wrote: Colonel: The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards
development of convenient half-truths.
Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you.
Rose: Billions spent on new weapons in order to humanely murder other humans.

Colonel: Rights of criminals are given more respect than the privacy of their victims.
Rose: Although there are people suffering in poverty, huge donations are made to protect endangered species.
Everyone grows up being told the same thing.
Colonel: Be nice to other people.
Rose: But beat out the competition!
Colonel: "You're special." "Believe in yourself and you will succeed."
Rose: But it's obvious from the start that only a few can succeed...
These are all the same in the Japanese version.
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Post by Spike »

OK. Thanks for these answers.
Osiris wrote:It doesn't even mention Snake grabbing The Boss's bandanna when he falls of the bridge.
Hideo Kojima wrote:When The Boss reaches out her hand on the helicopter, this was originally where she drops her bandana, and it floats down and reaches Snake. But during motion capture for the fight scene, the motion capture team came up with the suggestion to put this there, so Snake getting the bandana was changed to the fight on the bridge.
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Post by DarkTetsuya »

He said for a pro, the finger wouldn't be on the trigger unless preparing to fire. So he changed the position of Snake's finger in the scene on his own.
I'm visiting my dad in WA, sometimes we go to the shooting range, and that's the one thing he's always telling me. (Though I don't believe I've shot anything that Snake/Big Boss has... :P)

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Post by Artemio »

Osiris wrote: The only difference is the line, "The White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution." In the original text, it has "(The corruption in) the White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution." The parentheses are used as notes to clarify points. Maybe the translator should have worked them into the text.
Well, that is quite a difference. very inetresting indeed, we'll haave to wait and see how relevant this al was...
Osiris wrote: The poem is not mentioned next to it, but it is possible Kojima is alluding to it. Here's the line in Japanese:

それが世界を終わらせるのだ。緩やかに。

Literally:
That (the world being engulfed in truth) will end the world. Gently.

Every Japanese translation I could find contrasts the bang and the whimper in the final line. It's hard to say for certain.
Thansk a lot for taking the time and searching all that. This makes me think that it was a translation inserted references, and not from the original, though the reference is welcomed since it does make sense.

Thanks a lot for that man, I really appreciate this =)
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Post by Marc »

Snatcher wrote:
Osiris wrote: The only difference is the line, "The White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution." In the original text, it has "(The corruption in) the White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution." The parentheses are used as notes to clarify points. Maybe the translator should have worked them into the text.
Well, that is quite a difference. very inetresting indeed, we'll haave to wait and see how relevant this al was...
I'm surprised it isn't even mentioned in the script in the Document. Most of the other notes like that are. A few aren't, though, like the one pointing out that the Colonel's send-off is a reference to Houseman's from MGS1.
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Post by Spike »

I don't think this deserves a new topic, so I'm posting it here :
The third to sixth sections of the Kojima Commentary Page were recently updated with some interesting tidbits and explanations about MGS3.
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Post by kul »

I've got a couple of questions from guys at my board.

1. Adam had to help Snake, sao why the hell was he trying to kill him all the time? Of course he was working with Volgin, but maybe there's something more to it.
2. Why did Eva hid a transmiter in Granin shoes? Why would she need his wherabouts?
3. Eva is hidint her shoes during the cutscene in mountins, why?
4. Why The Boss is talking about making the world one. She knew that she was only a pawn so why bother?
5. Did Snake knew Vamp before MGS2? He's saying:
Raiden: By the way, have you ever met the guy before?
Raiden: But he seemed to know you...
Snake: Right. Well, I... no... ...it can't be... I told you that Dead Cell is a group
of madmen... I wouldn't take anything they say very seriously.

I and the guys at my board will be really grateful for answers :)
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Post by Charlie Johnson »

In MGS2, what's the password for the workstation in the tanker holds? Is it mentioned anywhere? At least we know that it must have six letters, my guess is "Helena".
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Post by Marc »

kul wrote:I've got a couple of questions from guys at my board.

I and the guys at my board will be really grateful for answers :)
Hey, sorry this took so long. I admit I forgot about it after it moved down the thread. I don't know if I can be of much help with these, but here are some answers anyway:

1. That was more Ocelot's personal feelings toward Snake. As hinted by Eva saying he took all of Snake's food after he was captured, he developed this mini-obsession with Snake. I don't think he would have ever killed him, though. (See the duel at the end.)

2. That it doesn't say, but it definitely was her who put them there in order to keep tabs on Granin's whereabouts. I dunno, maybe it had something to do with leading Snake to meet him at the lab.

3. They're the shoes she wears when playing her other role as Tanya. She's probably afraid Snake might recognize them, just in case he ever saw Tanya before. She forgets , or rather isn't able to, change back into them later on. Ocelot then sees the marks from the bike on her boots.

4. Even if she knew she was being used, she was still being loyal to herself in believing that her sacrifice would help make the world she wanted to see. I'm guessing she'd have no idea about Ocelot's other plans. This part is still up in the air, I think. What was Ocelot really after? The same thing as his mother? I guess we'll have to wait for MGS4.

5. When Vamp smells Snake, he picks up the same scent that Solidus has. He realizes this man must be Solid Snake, Dead Cell's sworn enemy. He's interrupted before he can get any further, however.

Snake tries to cover his identity from Raiden later on. He realizes Vamp must have linked their smells, and that's how he knows who he is (since Vamp knows Solidus, too).
Charlie Johnson wrote:In MGS2, what's the password for the workstation in the tanker holds? Is it mentioned anywhere? At least we know that it must have six letters, my guess is "Helena".
No, it isn't mentioned anywhere. Sorry. :/
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Spike
J.U.N.K.E.R.
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:41 am
Kojima games owned: Metal Gear Solid 2 : Sons of Liberty
Metal Gear Solid 3 : Snake Eater
Metal Gear Solid 3 : Subsistence
Zone of the Enders 2 : The Second Runner
Location: Belgium

Post by Spike »

I just rewatched some MGS1 cutscenes on YouTube and something caught my eye :
Snake : Gray Fox... Colonel, that ninja is Gray Fox. No doubt about it.
Campbell : Ridiculous ! You of all people should know he died in Zanzibar.
Naomi : No, he should have died... but he didn't.
(...)
Snake : And that was Gray Fox...
Campbell : But he was already dead...
Naomi : Yes. But they revived him.


So, did Gray Fox really die in Zanzibar ?
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