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Question regarding the JPN MGS2:Substance voiceovers.

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:59 am
by elektr1k
Okay, I'm a little confused regarding the voiceovers in the Japanese PS2 version of MGS2: Substance. I understand that the original Sons of Liberty of course had Japanese voiceovers, however I've seen sites list the JPN Substance as just a re-release of the US/EUR Substance, except with Japanese subtitles.

Reason being because I'm interested in buying the JPN version just for the original voices (that's not to say that the English dubs were bad, they weren't), and I'd of course rather pick up Substance instead of SoL -- though I'd be happy with plain SoL if the voiceovers in Substance are English after all.

Does the JPN MGS2:Substance have English or Japanese voiceovers? Anyone know?

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:34 am
by hybridtheory
Substance like Intergral contained english voiceovers with Japanese subtitles so you're better off importing Sons of Liberty for the Japanese voiceovers.

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:53 am
by Johnny Undaunted
you're much better off purchasing the Premium Package editions for each game anyway. They're a bit costly, but not hard to find and you get tons of extras with them,

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:43 pm
by elektr1k
Thanks for the replies, dudes. One more question, however.

Play-Asia is listing the Konami Palace Selection of the JPN MGS2:Substance as having been released in October of 2004. Do you think the voices have been re-worked back into the original Japanese in the KPS, or is it just the same JPN MGS2:S at a lower price?

If not, Sons of Liberty it is, then!

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:06 pm
by Marc
I picked up that version the last time I was in Japan, and I can tell you it's the original Japanese voices. That's actually its main selling point, if you read the back of the box. :) It also has a nifty reversable cover.

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:12 pm
by elektr1k
Frickin'. Awesome. Thanks, man.

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:53 pm
by Missing
I always thought Substance offered both Japanese and English audio options.

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:13 pm
by Marc
No, they have English voices, but the option of Japanese or English text. Subsistence kept the Japanese voices for some reason.

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:17 pm
by Jonathan Ingram
Osiris wrote:I picked up that version the last time I was in Japan, and I can tell you it's the original Japanese voices. That's actually its main selling point, if you read the back of the box. :) It also has a nifty reversable cover.
Mmmm yeah that edition of the game is really nice. Reminds of when I used to have money to spend on things like that...

... Damn this crack addiction!

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:50 pm
by Missing
Osiris wrote:No, they have English voices, but the option of Japanese or English text. Subsistence kept the Japanese voices for some reason.
Maybe Kojima actually gave a listen to the English language version and decided against it. No matter what anyone says about Hayter perfectly characterizing Solid Snake, I still feel the English voice-overs are no match for the Japanese language track. I'm just glad I hadn't sought out a copy of Substance, as the Japanese audio would've been my only reason for purchasing it.

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:44 pm
by Marc
I agree, I think Akio Otsuka is the embodiment of Snake. Most of the people who disagree either:

1) Don't know Japanese and can't appreciate the performance fully.

or

2) Have only heard his voice in the trailers and haven't played the full versions.

They do a great job casting the Japanese versions. Some of the English voices are almost better than their Japanese counterparts (mainly in MGS1), but not quite. They also have the benefit of Kojima personally directing the recording sessions, so his intentions for the inflections and such aren't lost.

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:03 am
by ratperson665
Osiris wrote:I agree, I think Akio Otsuka is the embodiment of Snake. Most of the people who disagree either:

1) Don't know Japanese and can't appreciate the performance fully.

or

2) Have only heard his voice in the trailers and haven't played the full versions.

They do a great job casting the Japanese versions. Some of the English voices are almost better than their Japanese counterparts (mainly in MGS1), but not quite. They also have the benefit of Kojima personally directing the recording sessions, so his intentions for the inflections and such aren't lost.


Well I don't know Japanese but I have heard Otsuka's voice in game and find it mediocre. Here’s why:

First of all it's not because it's in Japanese (The Japanese VO for Otacon was amazing!) It's because it doesn't fit the character. I've always thought of Snake as a tough-as-nails mercenary in terms of personality. Otsuka doesn’t deliver that at all. His voice is too deep, it's extremely over the top and he lacks that gruff quality that Hayter's voice has. I think that overall Hayter did a much better job of portraying the character. (Just my opinion.)

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:12 am
by Dave
You can't say that the voice over doesn't fit Snake based solely on your own definition of his personality. Kojima was directly involved in casting Otsuka and that was the voice that Snake was meant to have. So pretty much you are saying the voice that the game used originally and was hand picked by the creator (who birthed the character) of the game is inferior to the english dubbing in which he was less involved with? I think that Kojima has much more of a say in his character's voices than you do.

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:11 am
by Jonathan Ingram
Well, ratperson's allowed his opinion, albeit horribly flawed and clearly the wrong one. I'd certainly argue against saying that Otsuka Akio isn't gruff. And accusing Otsuka of being over the top... have you played The Twin Snakes? Hayter is practically shitting himself the whole time to get that übergruffness to come out. I hold the opinion that only MGS bests the Japanese voices, MGS2 and 3 both have better Japanese soundtracks, and that is only an average for MGS, as I can think of characters I'd prefer to listen to in Japanese still.

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:29 am
by Artemio
I also believe Otsuka's voice is way better. I recall playing the MGS3 demo, and being completely into the voice acting when Snake talks for the Boss for the first time.. a lot of emotions there, that were unfortunately not present in the US version.

ratperson as a word of advice, try not establish your opinions on what you believe (or want) the characters to be, it will only make it so that you end up with a very different opinion on the material to what was intended. In this case, although it is nice you like the American interpretation, it is solely based on the commercial goal of presenting Snake the way you precisely liked it. You are a perfect representative of the target market they are attacking with Mr. Hayter's voice acting. And don't take me wrong, it definitively has added some to it and I love the way it sound... but in every iteration of the game so far, the characters have become more deep (I believe) and the voice acting has stayed trying to portrait just the original intentions and not expanding the full range that Kojima has created since. Maybe that's why you don't appreciate Otsuka's voice acting, because you want it to stay where you liked it, and not grow with the same dimension as it did in the Japanese original. Just my two cents though.

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:18 am
by Marc
I recommend you listen to the Drama CDs. Some great performances in there all round, especially at the end of Episode 2 when Snake and Mei Ling are talking on the beach.

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:06 pm
by Missing
I think ratperson probably draws nostalgia in prefering Hayter to Otsuka. I am preferential to the English cast of MGS1 myself, but I think only because that was how I first became acquainted to the game (though the performers are all excellent, in either language, without dispute). But having listened to the more recent games, I've become tired of the constant overacting delivered in many of the cutscenes and radio conversations. For some reason, none of the English cast who returned for the following two games had any of the charm or personality they displayed in MGS1. They no longer can deliver an intentionally funny line humorously, nor can the deliver a serious line without making me laugh. The Japanese cast however, has still remained its high standard. I only hope that for MGS4, American and European audiences are for once given the choice between both languages. With the amount of space provided on Blu-Ray discs, there's no reason why it shouldn't be possible.

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:39 am
by Spike
(Just wanted to share my opinion) Well, I've never played any MGS game in Japanese and therefore, I wouldn't dare to comment on Akio Otsuka's acting.
But I'd like to say that, from what I heard in various MGS trailers, I found his timbre (his voice) too... "common"/not peculiar enough for Snake.

On the other hand, I think David Hayter's "Snake" voice totally suits the character. (I know Kojima chose Otsuka specifically and not Hayter, but that's my opinion).
Now, about Hayter's acting, according to me, it was (very) good in MGS1, average in MGS2 (his voice starts to lack emotions, but since MGS2 isn't the most emotional of the three games...) and bad in MGS3 (Big Boss almost sounds like a total dumb-ass :???: ). Let's wait and see what he does in MPO (Ryan Payton said Hayter changed his way to interpretate Big Boss) and MGS4.

Speaking about MGS4 (from what I heard from the trailers, once again), I think Otsuka perfectly captured the "old soldier tired from battle" essence and so, is really perfect for Old Snake (strange, heh ?).
Missing wrote:I only hope that for MGS4, American and European audiences are for once given the choice between both languages. With the amount of space provided on Blu-Ray discs, there's no reason why it shouldn't be possible.
Let's hope so.

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:55 am
by kitano
I admire Akio Otsuka from other roles; I've never listened much to his dialogue as Snake except a few trailers.

For example, I'm sure a lot of you may have listened to Otsuka in Ghost in the Shell 1&2 and the series, and I don't know about you, but it seemed to me he had a precise subtlety to each and every situation. I was especially amazed by his range in the series. No complaints about his acting at all. None.

I've listened to some pieces of MGS3 and his performance in the more emotional scenes was dead-on. David Hayter, as much as I like the guy, couldn't pull it of (I also strongly disliked Volgin's. The Boss' was off at a good deal of key points as well. She seemed like she was -singing- the text sometimes, instead of speaking it naturally).
In MGS David Hayter was very good actually. Some parts I thought were a little off, but in retrospective -after MGS2 and especially 3- that was his best work in MGS by far.


And don't get me started on the English version of Raiden...

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:45 pm
by elektr1k
Turns out even the Konami Palace Selection of MGS2: Substance JPN only has the American VAs.

Oh well. Guess I'll pick up the JPN SOL after all.

Thanks anyway, guys.

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:53 pm
by Marc
Wow, that is totally my fault. When I read, "Play-Asia is listing the Konami Palace Selection of the JPN MGS2:Substance as having been released in October of 2004", I did not see the word Substance in there. I did not know there were two versions of the MGS2 Palace edition. I have the Palace version of SOL, which has Japanese VAs, but didn't know they did a Palace one for Substance too. Sorry about that. You didn't find that out after buying it, did you?

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:30 pm
by elektr1k
Well, I found out when I started up the game yesterday. It's just the same as Substance Japan -- English VA with the option for Japanese subtitles.

It's okay though, I'll just get Sons of Liberty, then.

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:35 pm
by Charlie Johnson
elektr1k wrote:Well, I found out when I started up the game yesterday. It's just the same as Substance Japan -- English VA with the option for Japanese subtitles.

It's okay though, I'll just get Sons of Liberty, then.
I have one question about Substance JP, I've noticed that some difficulties in the japanese version of SoL are toned down, compared to the US and PAL releases. For example, the japanese normal difficulty is the PAL/US easy difficulty and the japanese hard difficulty is the PAL/US normal difficulty. Is it the same in the japanese version of Substance?

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:52 am
by Spike
Charlie Johnson wrote:the japanese normal difficulty is the PAL/US easy difficulty and the japanese hard difficulty is the PAL/US normal difficulty. Is it the same in the japanese version of Substance?
They made these changes between American and Japanese difficulty modes since MGS1 until Substance.

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:05 am
by Charlie Johnson
Spike wrote:
Charlie Johnson wrote:the japanese normal difficulty is the PAL/US easy difficulty and the japanese hard difficulty is the PAL/US normal difficulty. Is it the same in the japanese version of Substance?
They made these changes between American and Japanese difficulty modes since MGS1 until Substance.
In MGS1 there's actually only one difficulty in the japanese version. At least in the original release, not Integral.

But why? And what about MGS3? Is it the same there?