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Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:16 am
by Commander_AK-47
I overheard some people talking about how much better Ninja Raiden is than Gray Fox. I had a hard time not butting in to disagree. I think Raiden is no match for Gray Fox. Frank Jaeger is the original cyborg ninja and no one could ever beat him, except the Metal Gear REX. Anyway there is no way that Raiden would ever be able to beat him, in a straight up ninja fight Jaeger would kick his ass.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:11 pm
by gixo
But you see like nothing of Frank Jaeger. It's a small piece in MG2, Some awesome scenes in MGS and some in PO, which is pretty odd. (He has a cool background thou, but so does Jack (
Spoiler:
Tha Ripper! Eating gun powder, hell yeash!!!
))

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:12 pm
by Dick Motorman
Frank was not the original cyborg ninja. I really can't believe I'm seeing a thread like this, is this really what it's come to?

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:01 pm
by Space Cowboy
What? Yes, he was. If you're about to make a reference to Null, then stop.. because Null and Jaeger are the same person.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:04 pm
by Commander_AK-47
gixo wrote:But you see like nothing of Frank Jaeger. It's a small piece in MG2, Some awesome scenes in MGS and some in PO, which is pretty odd. (He has a cool background thou, but so does Jack (
Spoiler:
Tha Ripper! Eating gun powder, hell yeash!!!
))
Well true, but Jaeger still beats Jack out for miles.
Dick Motorman wrote:Frank was not the original cyborg ninja. I really can't believe I'm seeing a thread like this, is this really what it's come to?
Unless I'm remembering incorrectly he WAS the original cyborg ninja. You mind elaborating?

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:10 pm
by jonthomas83
Dick Motorman wrote:I really can't believe I'm seeing a thread like this, is this really what it's come to?
I don't see what the problem is, are we not allowed to freely start conversations about anything that we may find interesting anymore? Granted, this is not the type of conversation that interests me either, but surely we all have the right to talk about stuff that interests us.

Well at least it wansn't the type of conversation that interests me until you said...
Dick Motorman wrote:Frank was not the original cyborg ninja.
Cos now I'm intrigued to know who was! :)

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:40 pm
by 87th
Color Black/Black Ninja/Kyle Schneider from MetalGear 2: Solid Snake.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:42 pm
by jonthomas83
87th wrote:Color Black/Black Ninja/Kyle Schneider from MetalGear 2: Solid Snake.
Ok time for me to leave now, I've not reached MG2 in my MG Marathon yet! lol.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:33 pm
by gixo
87th wrote:Color Black/Black Ninja/Kyle Schneider from MetalGear 2: Solid Snake.
I thought about that too. But are those cyborgs?

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:12 am
by Henry Spencer
Spoiler:
Kyle Schneider was a character from MG1, one of Snake's codec contacts (or radio support, as codec wasn't invented then). At the end of the game, something happened to him as his radio went dead. In Metal Gear 2, we learn that he has been turned into a cyborg ninja (whose codename is "Color Black" or "Black Ninja", depending on which translation of the game you play) and is in fact working with Big Boss (another betrayal to add to Madnar and Gray Fox, there's a lot of betrayals in MG2). He was the first boss in that game.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:23 am
by richarddavies
As cool as they both are, Grey fox did get his arse squashed by Metal gear while Raiden took down an army of them in MGS2 and that was even before he got cyborged up. Though it did feel a bit like they tried to make jack all angsty in MGS4 which I didn't feel he needed. Just felt like they tried to make him a copy of Fox.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:10 am
by gixo
I see, my fault. Anyway, as a a ninja he isn't really that "cool". Damn hard thou.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:33 am
by Dick Motorman
Space Cowboy wrote:What? Yes, he was. If you're about to make a reference to Null, then stop.. because Null and Jaeger are the same person.
Commander_AK-47 wrote:
Dick Motorman wrote:Frank was not the original cyborg ninja. I really can't believe I'm seeing a thread like this, is this really what it's come to?
Unless I'm remembering incorrectly he WAS the original cyborg ninja. You mind elaborating?
jonthomas83 wrote:
Dick Motorman wrote:I really can't believe I'm seeing a thread like this, is this really what it's come to?
I don't see what the problem is, are we not allowed to freely start conversations about anything that we may find interesting anymore? Granted, this is not the type of conversation that interests me either, but surely we all have the right to talk about stuff that interests us.

Well at least it wansn't the type of conversation that interests me until you said...
Dick Motorman wrote:Frank was not the original cyborg ninja.
Cos now I'm intrigued to know who was! :)
Like has already been said Schneider was the original 'cyborg ninja'

The reason I said this is;
Dick Motorman wrote:I really can't believe I'm seeing a thread like this, is this really what it's come to?
is because honestly discussing which character is better than another? Which one is cooler? This is stuff that 13 year old Halo fans do. To honestly use "he was first" or "he was cooler" as an argument, thats just ridiculous and makes you (anyone that does it) look like a moron. All the cyborg ninjas in these games served their purpose and had separate and intriguing lives, but to say "well he could kick his ass" or "he looks cooler" is just... well to put it simply, fucking retarded, this is metal gear, not power rangers. I mean of all the things in the metal gear series we could be discussing; philosophical meanings, mgs2's ending, why didn't Ocelot just pick up his own hand?, and so many other things, but instead we choose to talk about what ninja is cooler? Please. There must be someone else that understands this.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:51 am
by seraphssavior
Whoa, whoa, whoa...Let's not badmouth the Power Rangers. Tommy was the original badass.

Really feel like I'm dating myself here...

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:58 am
by gixo
Yes i understand you. I really do.

I'm not really intressted in discussing things like this, but people who want to discuss it should be allowed too? Or should they head back to TUS?
Anyway i don't really care about how they fight or anything. I found their storys more interesting. Like how Jeager and Snake fought in the middle of a mine field (which isn't that cool as Snake makes it sound). How Jeager killed Naomi's parents.

Raidens story was pretty nice at first. How he finally remember his background, but he still wasn't a Cyborg then, which doesn't count? And then how he became a Cyborg is f-ed up anyway.

Olga is odd too.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:20 pm
by Commander_AK-47
I know that there were ninjas before like in MG2. But if I'm not mistaken, Jaeger was the original CYBORG ninja.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:22 pm
by Henry Spencer
Well, to be technical about, Jaegar is the first ninja (in Portable Ops), sure he was enhanced by the tests, but he wasn't a cyborg yet (cyborgs are humans who have certain physiological processes aided or controlled by mechanical or electronic devices, whilst the tests in MPO were psychological, so it is different, since he wasn't aided with say, the exoskeleton that he got in MGS1). It is actually Schneider who was the original cyborg ninja. You see, he was the first character that Kojima wrote as a ninja, not only that, but Gray Fox was not a cyborg ninja until the events of Shadow Moses, and Schneider was a cyborg ninja during the Zanzibarland revolt, which is set before.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:13 pm
by The Prince II
Cyborg Ninja's are lame. Ninja Raiden especially.

The only reason Gray Fox is awesome in MGS is because his character is deep and compelling. Not shallow fanservice.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:19 am
by Dick Motorman
Henry Spencer wrote:Well, to be technical about, Jaegar is the first ninja (in Portable Ops), sure he was enhanced by the tests, but he wasn't a cyborg yet (cyborgs are humans who have certain physiological processes aided or controlled by mechanical or electronic devices, whilst the tests in MPO were psychological, so it is different, since he wasn't aided with say, the exoskeleton that he got in MGS1). It is actually Schneider who was the original cyborg ninja. You see, he was the first character that Kojima wrote as a ninja, not only that, but Gray Fox was not a cyborg ninja until the events of Shadow Moses, and Schneider was a cyborg ninja during the Zanzibarland revolt, which is set before.
thank you.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:43 am
by Commander_AK-47
Henry Spencer wrote:Well, to be technical about, Jaegar is the first ninja (in Portable Ops), sure he was enhanced by the tests, but he wasn't a cyborg yet (cyborgs are humans who have certain physiological processes aided or controlled by mechanical or electronic devices, whilst the tests in MPO were psychological, so it is different, since he wasn't aided with say, the exoskeleton that he got in MGS1). It is actually Schneider who was the original cyborg ninja. You see, he was the first character that Kojima wrote as a ninja, not only that, but Gray Fox was not a cyborg ninja until the events of Shadow Moses, and Schneider was a cyborg ninja during the Zanzibarland revolt, which is set before.
Well, that makes it a lot clearer. Thanks for explaining instead of just saying that he wasn't the first cyborg ninja and leaving it at your word. Anyway even though he was not the first he is still massively awesome.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:11 pm
by Henry Spencer
Yeah, Gray Fox is my favourite ninja as well. Snake's lifelong companion. One of the best characters of the series as well.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:28 pm
by Dick Motorman
Commander_AK-47 wrote:
Henry Spencer wrote:Well, to be technical about, Jaegar is the first ninja (in Portable Ops), sure he was enhanced by the tests, but he wasn't a cyborg yet (cyborgs are humans who have certain physiological processes aided or controlled by mechanical or electronic devices, whilst the tests in MPO were psychological, so it is different, since he wasn't aided with say, the exoskeleton that he got in MGS1). It is actually Schneider who was the original cyborg ninja. You see, he was the first character that Kojima wrote as a ninja, not only that, but Gray Fox was not a cyborg ninja until the events of Shadow Moses, and Schneider was a cyborg ninja during the Zanzibarland revolt, which is set before.
Well, that makes it a lot clearer. Thanks for explaining instead of just saying that he wasn't the first cyborg ninja and leaving it at your word. Anyway even though he was not the first he is still massively awesome.

I should have explained my self further, as i do know how hard it is for you to look something up.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:29 pm
by jonthomas83
Dick Motorman wrote:I should have explained my self further, as i do know how hard it is for you to look something up.
FFS, some people on here have real attitude problems. Grow up. He was tidy enough in his answer there's no need to be arsey about it.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:58 pm
by Commander_AK-47
I'm just saying that there is a difference between me being too lazy to look something up and him being too lazy to explain himself. If you are going to start a debate, then you should at least have the decency of explaining, so people viewing your post don't have to look it up.

Re: Jaeger or Raiden?

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:14 pm
by jonthomas83
Commander_AK-47 wrote:I'm just saying that there is a difference between me being too lazy to look something up and him being too lazy to explain himself. If you are going to start a debate, then you should at least have the decency of explaining, so people viewing your post don't have to look it up.
I was actually saying that Dick Motorman, amongst others, had the attitude problem. The bit about "He was tidy enough in his answer...", I was talking about you! lol.