Please explain.
The ending explained...
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The ending explained...
So, I'm finally done with Policenauts. I thought it was fun for the most part and that the translation was very well done, but... I'm not sure I understand the ending nor the villains' master plan. Either something is lost in the translation or Kojima's writing is at fault.
Honestly, what was it all about? Why would the villains do this? Am I missing something?
Please explain.
Spoiler:
Please explain.
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Re: The ending explained...
Spoiler:
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Re: The ending explained...
Yeah, I know it's a cliché, but still... In Snatcher, the way it is explained it makes sense, in all the Metal Gear it makes sense (maybe minus MG1), but here in Policenauts, it's like... what the hell were they thinking? I wonder if it is really intended to be that way: in the Lethal Weapons, the villains' master plans tend to be needlessly convoluted most of the time. But that could be a stretch...
Re: The ending explained...
Kojima loves these old school plot devices. It's just a cheap way of cluing the reader in, and I actually do think the MASTER PLAN itself does make sense in this case and he's just trying to justify himself. Would anyone really talk for 15 minutes like that? No. But they might say some dumb shit out of pride.
Kojima is also in love with the double cross and has been ever since Big Boss. Damsels in distress are also a recurring theme. I think he just likes old-timey movies. There are some film noir tones, too.
Spoiler:
Kojima is also in love with the double cross and has been ever since Big Boss. Damsels in distress are also a recurring theme. I think he just likes old-timey movies. There are some film noir tones, too.
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Re: The ending explained...
Spoiler:
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Re: The ending explained...
akakak4747 wrote:Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Re: The ending explained...
Spoiler:
Re: The ending explained...
Spoiler:
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Re: The ending explained...
Yeah, but, like I said, most Kojima's villains usually end up being more complex. The main villain in Snatcher was jealous of Gillian, Liquid hated Snake for overshadowing him, and, with Peace Walker coming, it seems we haven't seen the last of Big Boss. With Policenauts, however, it is just a case of "BWAHAHAHA! I AM EVIIIIIL!", the kind we see in bad animes or most Capcom games. I was expecting some Metal Gear-esque twist, such as Ed revealing that he was reluctantly part of it or something like it, but no. It was kind of... unexpected from Kojima.Frogacuda wrote:Kojima loves these old school plot devices. It's just a cheap way of cluing the reader in, and I actually do think the MASTER PLAN itself does make sense in this caseand he's just trying to justify himself. Would anyone really talk for 15 minutes like that? No. But they might say some dumb shit out of pride.Spoiler:
Kojima is also in love with the double cross and has been ever since Big Boss. Damsels in distress are also a recurring theme. I think he just likes old-timey movies. There are some film noir tones, too.
Oh well.
Re: The ending explained...
I can agree that the villains weren't that sophisticated, and didn't have any deep or complex motivations, but...
In real life, people do awful things for the sake of power and money. Not every evil person has a convoluted backstory behind them; some people are simply greedy.
In real life, people do awful things for the sake of power and money. Not every evil person has a convoluted backstory behind them; some people are simply greedy.
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Re: The ending explained...
I am ALSO a bit confused about this part. I mean, were there any clues in there about why this may have developed? I can't see any, but I overlooked some weird clues in Snatcher the first few times I played through. Maybe I'm just missing something.johnnythewolf wrote:Spoiler:
Re: The ending explained...
Not true, big boss was just evil in metal gear 1 and 2.johnnythewolf wrote:Yeah, but, like I said, most Kojima's villains usually end up being more complex. The main villain in Snatcher was jealous of Gillian, Liquid hated Snake for overshadowing him, and, with Peace Walker coming, it seems we haven't seen the last of Big Boss. With Policenauts, however, it is just a case of "BWAHAHAHA! I AM EVIIIIIL!", the kind we see in bad animes or most Capcom games. I was expecting some Metal Gear-esque twist, such as Ed revealing that he was reluctantly part of it or something like it, but no. It was kind of... unexpected from Kojima.Frogacuda wrote:Kojima loves these old school plot devices. It's just a cheap way of cluing the reader in, and I actually do think the MASTER PLAN itself does make sense in this caseand he's just trying to justify himself. Would anyone really talk for 15 minutes like that? No. But they might say some dumb shit out of pride.Spoiler:
Kojima is also in love with the double cross and has been ever since Big Boss. Damsels in distress are also a recurring theme. I think he just likes old-timey movies. There are some film noir tones, too.
Oh well.
Snatchers were just red evil comunist robots who wanted to take on the world.
And the thing with the boss's bone narrow could be just a trap to attract Johanatan to the final duel.
Re: The ending explained...
No, I think in anime cliches (and even in some Kojima games) the villains are needlessly complicated to the point of the absurd. They want to "destroy the world in order to purify it" or some ridiculous bullshit, which annoys me far more than someone who's in it for the money. It might not be original, but that's because that's the way people really work.johnnythewolf wrote:Yeah, but, like I said, most Kojima's villains usually end up being more complex. The main villain in Snatcher was jealous of Gillian, Liquid hated Snake for overshadowing him, and, with Peace Walker coming, it seems we haven't seen the last of Big Boss. With Policenauts, however, it is just a case of "BWAHAHAHA! I AM EVIIIIIL!", the kind we see in bad animes or most Capcom games.
The one part of it I did think was bullshit though was
Spoiler:
Re: The ending explained...
I'll let you guys debate the motives of the villains, but this is not typical Kojima, where everything is spelled out to the last detail, and then repeated three more times before the end of the game. He admitted in an interview that he wanted to leave certain things up to the player.
Spoiler:
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Re: The ending explained...
It's okay Marc, a lot of people want things explicitly spelt out to them now that Metal Gear villains typically like to go on about everything in uber detail. This isn't Metal Gear, so go play that if you want the game to force the villains motives down your neck.
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Re: The ending explained...
Marc wrote:I'll let you guys debate the motives of the villains, but this is not typical Kojima, where everything is spelled out to the last detail, and then repeated three more times before the end of the game. He admitted in an interview that he wanted to leave certain things up to the player.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Re: The ending explained...
Indeed, but keep in mind that MG1 had barely any plot and MG2's was sketchy at best. I guess Kojima himself wasn't satisfied with it, because he has been revisiting the Big Boss character in several games already.cacetete wrote:Not true, big boss was just evil in metal gear 1 and 2.
Snatchers were just red evil comunist robots who wanted to take on the world.
And the thing with the boss's bone narrow could be just a trap to attract Johanatan to the final duel.
I'm not sure it is fair to compare the original Metal Gear games to a plot-heavy game such as Policenauts.
Or any post-MG1 Kojima game, for that matter.Henry Spencer wrote:It's okay Marc, a lot of people want things explicitly spelt out to them now that Metal Gear villains typically like to go on about everything in uber detail. This isn't Metal Gear, so go play that if you want the game to force the villains motives down your neck.
Villains do justify their plans a lot in Policenauts - especially Salvatore, whose only purpose as a character unfortunately appears to explain the plot to the player.
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Re: The ending explained...
I'd say Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake was Kojima's first foray into complex plotting, actually (there's a surprising amount of dialogue in a game that is so damn old). He'd later refine it in the CDRomantic versions of Snatcher.johnnythewolf wrote:Indeed, but keep in mind that MG1 had barely any plot and MG2's was sketchy at best. I guess Kojima himself wasn't satisfied with it, because he has been revisiting the Big Boss character in several games already.cacetete wrote:Not true, big boss was just evil in metal gear 1 and 2.
Snatchers were just red evil comunist robots who wanted to take on the world.
And the thing with the boss's bone narrow could be just a trap to attract Johanatan to the final duel.
I'm not sure it is fair to compare the original Metal Gear games to a plot-heavy game such as Policenauts.
Henry Spencer wrote:It's okay Marc, a lot of people want things explicitly spelt out to them now that Metal Gear villains typically like to go on about everything in uber detail. This isn't Metal Gear, so go play that if you want the game to force the villains motives down your neck.
Or any post-MG1 Kojima game, for that matter.
Villains do justify their plans a lot in Policenauts - especially Salvatore, whose only purpose as a character unfortunately appears to explain the plot to the player.
Spoiler:
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Re: The ending explained...
Oh, I'm not asking for overcomplicated villains and long-winded explanations either. These can get tiresome, I agree. It's just that I'm disappointed by how Kojima handled some of the villains.Henry Spencer wrote:Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Re: The ending explained...
I thinkjohnnythewolf wrote:Oh, I'm not asking for overcomplicated villains and long-winded explanations either. These can get tiresome, I agree. It's just that I'm disappointed by how Kojima handled some of the villains.Henry Spencer wrote:Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Re: The ending explained...
Henry Spencer wrote:I thinkSpoiler:
Guess I missed that part. Still, I do believe the character could have used more screen time.
Well, Metal Gear has its share of actual *evil* villains too: Vamp, Fatman, Solidus, The <B>Patriots</B>, Voronin... It's just that they aren't as well remembered as the more tragic villains - although personally I wouldn't consider Liquid or Ocelot as "tragic" characters.Henry Spencer wrote:Spoiler:
But anyway, the way you put it, the guy's motives already make more sense. That doesn't make his final moments any less goofy though, at least on PS1 - unless of course it was intentional. We can never be too sure with Kojima...