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Remake of a remake of a remake... (mild spoilers)

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:12 am
by Szczepaniak
I just realised....

MGS2 on PS2 was a virtual reality remake of MGS on PS1 almost, as said at the end by Revolver.

But MGS on PS1 was almost like a remake of MG2:SS on the MSX2, right?

So in effect, we have actually been playing nothing but remakes of the same game since 1990. With MGS3 being the first true break from the series.

Almost.

Discuss.

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:16 am
by Gin-Ryu
MGS1has a lot of ideas from MG2:SS but calling it a remake it's wrong and I see MGS2 as an "update" from MGS1

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:36 am
by Ninja Kurosai
Well, since most things in MGS2 really did take place, it couldn't be considered a remake,. Although MGS took some ideas from MG2, it still isn't a complete remake. The stories are way different.

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:50 am
by randomwab
Hell, if your saying that then you may aswell say that TTS is pointless, as we already had a remake of MGS1 being MGS2, but thats silly, so saying there all remakes is foolish

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:52 pm
by 87th
Sure, some Codec calls, puzzles and, to a lesser extent, boss battles were repeated in the later games, but by no means made them remakes. The plots were very different in each (although it was repeated in MGS2 for a bit, but that was explained). The areas weren't even reminiscant of each other, either. It's far too extreme to call them remakes of each other. Besides, Snake Eater reminded me of the first two games just as much as MGS reminded me of MG2.

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:26 pm
by Szczepaniak
Its meant mainly in jest.

MGS2 is supposed to be a recreation of the Shadow Moses incident, which in turn borrowed a lot from MG2.

It does show that Kojima was clearly thinking about the first game while making the others.

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:46 am
by ReasonWhyNot
Otaku's right in a sense. I know you guys don't want to admit it, but certain concepts have stayed primarily the same from the beginning. Christ, even many plot points remained the same in Kojima's games. But because they're always fun to play, you forget about their redundancies regardless. I personally wouldn't call them remakes though, but a lot of the formulaic game design plans are reused when creating sequels. All these excessive sequels just wear out their damn franchises. I tire at the idea of the countless number of sequels Resident Evil will produce now that RE4 has rejuvenated the series, as if they didn't already have enough to begin with (complete with spin-offs and side stories). Metal Gear, Zelda, and Mario are the same way and unfortunately will never stop, despite the fact that sometimes it's necessary to move on and leave shit in the past. Kojima's proved this the way he rehashes ideas in his games.

Re: Remake of a remake of a remake... (mild spoilers)

Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:46 am
by Snake700
otaku84 wrote:I just realised....

MGS2 on PS2 was a virtual reality remake of MGS on PS1 almost, as said at the end by Revolver.

But MGS on PS1 was almost like a remake of MG2:SS on the MSX2, right?

So in effect, we have actually been playing nothing but remakes of the same game since 1990. With MGS3 being the first true break from the series.

Almost.

Discuss.
Forget i vorte anything here i my brother must have posted it

Re: Remake of a remake of a remake... (mild spoilers)

Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:25 pm
by Johnny Undaunted
Snake700 wrote:
otaku84 wrote:I just realised....

MGS2 on PS2 was a virtual reality remake of MGS on PS1 almost, as said at the end by Revolver.

But MGS on PS1 was almost like a remake of MG2:SS on the MSX2, right?

So in effect, we have actually been playing nothing but remakes of the same game since 1990. With MGS3 being the first true break from the series.

Almost.

Discuss.
Well with MGS1 a remake is worng but with MGS2 i think your right because it´s a VR remake of MGS1 as Ocelot says
Which shows how little you know about the older (pre-Solid) Metal Gear games. :razz:

Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 8:06 am
by Rick Deckard
And the English language.

Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 9:50 am
by Snake Plissken
Johnny Undaunted wrote:
Snake700 wrote:
otaku84 wrote:I just realised....

MGS2 on PS2 was a virtual reality remake of MGS on PS1 almost, as said at the end by Revolver.

But MGS on PS1 was almost like a remake of MG2:SS on the MSX2, right?

So in effect, we have actually been playing nothing but remakes of the same game since 1990. With MGS3 being the first true break from the series.

Almost.

Discuss.
Well with MGS1 a remake is worng but with MGS2 i think your right because it´s a VR remake of MGS1 as Ocelot says
Which shows how little you know about the older (pre-Solid) Metal Gear games. :razz:
Owned!!!!
Rick Deckard wrote:And the English language.
OWNED!!!

Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 11:13 am
by Rick Deckard
Like a motherfriggin' labour slave.

Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 7:37 pm
by Ninja Kurosai
Rick Deckard wrote:Like a motherfriggin' labour slave.
Image

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:43 pm
by Skycladiana
Well, Metal Gear is like any other serialized story. Events repeat themselves, characters resemble one another, and similar themes and motifs occur in each installment. Every game contains echoes that look backwards and forward, just as any series is that's lasted as long as this.

Look at Star Wars, for example. In each of those movies somebody gets their hand cut off, or at the very least is dismembered in some other extravagant way. Lines of dialogue are repeated, as are action sequences, set pieces, camera angles and pivotal emotional events. It's a method of creating a largescale epic story that goes back to the days of Homer, Virgil and Dante. Repetition is one of the very best ways to reinforce the ideas and emotions a story is trying to convey. It's quite heartening that Kojima incorporates this method into his work, both in context and content, like Lucas, Shakespeare or any of the other bards before him.

Besides the matters of rote gameplay that occur throughout the series (Radio/Codec communication, remote controlled missiles, fighting tanks, choppers and Metal Gears) think of all the other elements of action, story and theme that repeat themselves in Metal Gear games:

(1) In every game Snake fights former and current opperatives of Spetznaz. The most famous example is, of course Revolver Ocelot, but don't forget about the enemies from the original two games, either.

(2) In every game Snake/Raiden finds himself betrayed by people he had for a long time believed were friends or allies. Whether Big Boss, Gray Fox, Dr. Petrovich, Master Miller, Solidus Snake or the Boss, the protagonist is constantly finding himself crossed by allies who are often familial figures.

(3) Family, of course, is also a major component of these games. Symbolically Snake winds up fighting with his brotherly friend Gray Fox and "twin brother" Liquid. Parental figures always become the final boss in the game-- the Boss, Big Boss and his clones. Don't forget the fact that repetition plays a key role in a game series wherin many of the main characters are clones, after all. Family stories also are important, such as Naomi's lack of a family, the lineage of Revolver Ocelot , Fortune's father, the three generations of the Gurlokovich family and Campbell's protective interest in Meryl. Just as in all classical myths, everything revolves around a family. Notice how all the deadly squadrons in the MGS games call themselves "Sons" of something-- "Sons of the Boss," "Sons of Big Boss" or "Sons of Liberty."

Does that mean we'll see some incest in the future? Stay tuned...

Re: Remake of a remake of a remake... (mild spoilers)

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:41 am
by Snake700
otaku84 wrote:I just realised....

MGS2 on PS2 was a virtual reality remake of MGS on PS1 almost, as said at the end by Revolver.

But MGS on PS1 was almost like a remake of MG2:SS on the MSX2, right?

So in effect, we have actually been playing nothing but remakes of the same game since 1990. With MGS3 being the first true break from the series.

Almost.

Discuss.
As the other says MGS1 had some ideas from MG2SS and MGS2 is a recration of Shadow Moses but when have you seen remakes that takes place in the near future and not in the same year the orginal game was taken place?

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:03 am
by DarkTetsuya
Skycladiana wrote:Does that mean we'll see some incest in the future? Stay tuned...
Well, there was all that stuff with Otacon and his stepmom... :P

DT

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:42 pm
by Skycladiana
Yeah, lately there's a lot of almost incest in epic-scoped stories. Leia kissing Luke to piss off Han in ESB is the big Star Wars one, as well as all the Oedipal whatnot in the prequels.

Likewise in Sons of Liberty is there alot of symbolic incest going on, not only with Otacon sleeping with his Step-Mom, but also with his relationship to E.E. Are they just step-siblings? Does sleeping with her mother make him her step-father? And just how old is she supposed to be, anyway? There's definitely a Roman Polanski aspect to some of E.E.'s fantasies.

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:09 pm
by Rick Deckard
Oh come on, step doesn't count!