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"l'es enfant terribles"

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:53 am
by Gin-Ryu
is the "l'es enfant terribles" project possible I mean is there really superior genes?
And could Para-Medic (from MGS3) be the mother of the Snakes?

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:30 am
by FOX-HOUND
They were test tube babies weren't they? But I guess they still needed an egg to fertilize.

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:02 pm
by Gin-Ryu
but the whole superior genes theory is it possible?
I remember studing something about that

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:13 pm
by Crowley
I'd recommend taking a look here for a crash course on what MGS got wrong about genetics: http://www.gigaville.com/comic.php?id=54

Now, genes themselves aren't exactly superior or inferior. If you're thinking about the whole dominant/recessive thing, that only refers to the frequency of certain genotypical properties. Now, you may call some of the aspects caused by genes superior or inferior, but that is fairly subjective. For "supersoldiers" you would probably want to look for strength, speed and agility on the physical side, and for mental faculties at least tactical thinking and quick reaction as far as those are affected by genes. Production of stress-related hormones would probably also factor in. Finally, in order to actualize the potential set by the genes you should have the test-tube baby growing up in an environment which encourages the developement of physical and mental aspects necessary for a soldier.

While we've mapped the entire human DNA, that's a long way from figuring out which gene causes what and how you should alter those genes to get a desired result. If "soldier genes" were really singled out from Big Boss' DNA, that would mean that in the Metal Gear world genetics were well over 30 years ahead of real world developement. I personally prefer to think that an ovum was just fertilized with Big Boss' DNA (which still puts us at the level of Dolly the Sheep some 25 years early). Cloning from a fertilized ovum is quite simple and I think it's been around since the sixties. You simply plug one cell away when it's just fertilized and has started dividing (I think one of the video clips in MGS showed this being done). The removed cell will start dividing on it's own, creating a perfect genetic clone. You can easily create identical octuplets with that technique.

If someone has medical training, feel free to prove me wrong.

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:18 am
by Jonathan Ingram
They were carried in a surrogate mother's womb, Liquid does say that.
Liquid Snake wrote:They fertilized an egg with one of father's cells, and then let it divide into eight clone babies. Then they transferred the clones to someone's uterus and later intentionally aborted six of the fetuses to encourage strong fetal growth...
Also, it's "Les Enfants Terribles" not "L'es Enfant Terribles". Call me a Grammar Nazi, but it's important since it's the title of the project...

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:19 am
by 87th
Supposedly Eva was the woman they planted the cells in (I read that Les Enfantes Terribles was also called the EVA Project).

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:10 pm
by Gin-Ryu
Jonathan Ingram wrote:They were carried in a surrogate mother's womb, Liquid does say that.
Liquid Snake wrote:They fertilized an egg with one of father's cells, and then let it divide into eight clone babies. Then they transferred the clones to someone's uterus and later intentionally aborted six of the fetuses to encourage strong fetal growth...
Also, it's "Les Enfants Terribles" not "L'es Enfant Terribles". Call me a Grammar Nazi, but it's important since it's the title of the project...
sorry my french is a little rusty

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:01 pm
by Rick Deckard
Jonathan Ingram wrote:Also, it's "Les Enfants Terribles" not "L'es Enfant Terribles". Call me a Grammar Nazi, but it's important since it's the title of the project...
I'd argue that, being fictional, it's not terribly important.

...You fucking Nazi!

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:25 pm
by randomwab
I highly doubt EVA was the mother, every ounce of my brain screams that that isn't right. Plus, EVA dissapeared before the Les Enfants Terrible project began, and even so, how would she have got involved with it.

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:16 pm
by Rick Deckard
Eva was working for China. And America isn't China. And I refuse to listen to anyone who suggests it is.

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:02 am
by Omega579
Rick Deckard wrote:
Jonathan Ingram wrote:Also, it's "Les Enfants Terribles" not "L'es Enfant Terribles". Call me a Grammar Nazi, but it's important since it's the title of the project...
I'd argue that, being fictional, it's not terribly important.

...You fucking Nazi!
Damn, we can start using the word Nazi again?! Last I remembered everyone was getting all uppity aboot it.

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:31 am
by randomwab
Rick Deckard wrote:
Jonathan Ingram wrote:Also, it's "Les Enfants Terribles" not "L'es Enfant Terribles". Call me a Grammar Nazi, but it's important since it's the title of the project...
I'd argue that, being fictional, it's not terribly important.

...You fucking Nazi!
So you insult someone who was making a valid point by calling them a member of an Ex-extremist German Political Party. Way to go with the insults there!

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:03 pm
by MrRudi
randomwab wrote:I highly doubt EVA was the mother, every ounce of my brain screams that that isn't right. Plus, EVA dissapeared before the Les Enfants Terrible project began...
Yes, and why DID she dissapear? Huh? Huh?

;)

There is no way of telling who the surrogate mother would have been, aside from the brief moment Liquid Snake mentioned her, there is no reference. EVA would make as much sense as Para-Medic, or Brigitte Bardot.

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:23 pm
by Jonathan Ingram
MrRudi wrote:There is no way of telling who the surrogate mother would have been, aside from the brief moment Liquid Snake mentioned her, there is no reference. EVA would make as much sense as Para-Medic, or Brigitte Bardot.
Indeed.
Randomwab wrote:
Rick Deckard wrote:
Jonathan Ingram wrote: Also, it's "Les Enfants Terribles" not "L'es Enfant Terribles". Call me a Grammar Nazi, but it's important since it's the title of the project...
I'd argue that, being fictional, it's not terribly important.

...You fucking Nazi!
So you insult someone who was making a valid point by calling them a member of an Ex-extremist German Political Party. Way to go with the insults there!
I did invite him to call me a Nazi after all...

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:00 pm
by Omega579
Jonathan Ingram wrote:
MrRudi wrote:There is no way of telling who the surrogate mother would have been, aside from the brief moment Liquid Snake mentioned her, there is no reference. EVA would make as much sense as Para-Medic, or Brigitte Bardot.
Indeed.
Randomwab wrote:
Rick Deckard wrote:
Jonathan Ingram wrote: Also, it's "Les Enfants Terribles" not "L'es Enfant Terribles". Call me a Grammar Nazi, but it's important since it's the title of the project...
I'd argue that, being fictional, it's not terribly important.

...You fucking Nazi!
So you insult someone who was making a valid point by calling them a member of an Ex-extremist German Political Party. Way to go with the insults there!
I did invite him to call me a Nazi after all...
Maybe if you didn't capitalize Nazi it wouldn't seem like you're talking aboot Hitler's boys. You grammar nazi! See no more negative connotations=)

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:53 pm
by Rick Deckard
Omega579 wrote:Maybe if you didn't capitalize Nazi it wouldn't seem like you're talking aboot Hitler's boys. You grammar nazi! See no more negative connotations=)
Well I'm not going to do that since you've clearly just made up the word "nazi".

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:09 pm
by Jonathan Ingram
You have to capitalise "Nazi", it's the title of a political party. The suggestion that not capitalising it releases it of negative connotations isn't a great one. To clear this whole thing up, I mentioned the phrase "Grammar Nazi" in jest, as a mockery of its use on forums generally, and Rick jumped on my invitation to call me one. That's it. Subject closed.

Carry on discussing the topic's original theme though of course...

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:58 pm
by Omega579
Jonathan Ingram wrote:You have to capitalise "Nazi", it's the title of a political party. The suggestion that not capitalising it releases it of negative connotations isn't a great one.
Um...It's a joke, dude. I thought it was obvious.
To clear this whole thing up, I mentioned the phrase "Grammar Nazi" in jest, as a mockery of its use on forums generally, and Rick jumped on my invitation to call me one. That's it. Subject closed.
Yes, we know it was a joke. So how is using the word Nazi any less derogatory than when I used the word on said forums...generally speaking. So, using the word in jest as oppossed to using it in general terms is ok? I'll make note of that for future reference.[/quote]

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:40 pm
by Rick Deckard
Omega579, I notice that you've changed your custom title to 'Grammar Policenaut', but I really don't think you're qualified to be a police enforcer of any kind when it comes to grammar. Not only did you not capitalise "OK" (it is generally acceptable not to - but a 'Grammar Policenaut' should really), but you also forgot to put a space between your words and ellipses "blah blah...blah".

Point out mistakes in my grammar if you want - I'm sure I've made some mistakes here and there, but then again I'm not calling myself a 'Grammar Policenaut'. The only thing you can criticise me for is my Blade Runner skills, and I'd love to see you produce some evidence for that. What are you even suggesting by 'Policenaut'? You're neither a policeman or an astronaut. Or a comedian, it seems.

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:13 pm
by MrRudi
Thank god I don't have to prove MY custom title :shock:

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:57 am
by randomwab
well I think you SHOULD!!! Only joking, back to the topic at hand, Les Enfants Terrible, this is probably something Kojima wants us to think about, something we will probably never know so we make our own judgment on, or perhaps he never thought of it at all, and we shouldnt either, all that matters is that Big Boss took part and Solid, Liquid and Solidus were created. One thing that always confused me (though i havnt played MGS2 in awhile and that might clear it up) is that if Solidus was the best, a well balanced mix of solid and liquid, then why were they created. If they surely wanted the best warrior, surely leave it at that. Or were they created so one would have all the dominant genes, making him superior?

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:46 am
by Gin-Ryu
Solidus was suposed to be a balanced Snake don't know why he looks older than Liquid or Solid

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:14 am
by Omega579
Rick Deckard wrote:Omega579, I notice that you've changed your custom title to 'Grammar Policenaut', but I really don't think you're qualified to be a police enforcer of any kind when it comes to grammar. Not only did you not capitalise "OK" (it is generally acceptable not to - but a 'Grammar Policenaut' should really), but you also forgot to put a space between your words and ellipses "blah blah...blah".

Point out mistakes in my grammar if you want - I'm sure I've made some mistakes here and there, but then again I'm not calling myself a 'Grammar Policenaut'. The only thing you can criticise me for is my Blade Runner skills, and I'd love to see you produce some evidence for that. What are you even suggesting by 'Policenaut'? You're neither a policeman or an astronaut. Or a comedian, it seems.
Sorry, i'm not a policeman. I have trained members of the local police force some basic BJJ and MMA skills. I am not an astronaut, but I am a space cadet. I am also not a comedian.

As for Solidus looking older, maybe he has a higher rate of decay in his cells which make him look older than Liquid & Solid due to an older DNA sample from Big Boss.

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:12 pm
by Crowley
My favourite theory is that Solidus was just made to look older with whatever means they used along with a fake birthdate so that he could credibly become the president.

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:21 pm
by Jonathan Ingram
Indeed, for him to have been president in 2005 would imply he was born in at least 1970, as the minimum age for presidency is 35 isn't it?