MPO theories: The Man With the Same Codename as Null...
- Skycladiana
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MPO theories: The Man With the Same Codename as Null...
Okay. For those who haven't finished MPO yet, pay no attention as this could get fairly spoilerish. For everyone else, among the questions left at the end of MPO, let's start with this one:
Who is Ocelot's mysterious benefactor, the man who, as Gene says, has the same codename as Null?
I figure there's three possibilities to this. One, it's a fictional character we haven't met yet and will be introduced to in GotP. Two, it's a fictional character we've already met. Three, it's a real-life person being fictionalized in some way who actually did go by the codename of "Null." Of these possibilities, I find the first and second most likely, though if anybody's willing to do the research and find out if any US Gov't agents during the 70's had such a codename, be my guest.
Assuming that the second possibility is true, I can only think of one likely candidate as to who "The Man with the Same Codename as Null" is, but before I say so, I'd like to hear others' thoughts, just so I can see if my theory is completely off track. Speculate away until then.
Who is Ocelot's mysterious benefactor, the man who, as Gene says, has the same codename as Null?
I figure there's three possibilities to this. One, it's a fictional character we haven't met yet and will be introduced to in GotP. Two, it's a fictional character we've already met. Three, it's a real-life person being fictionalized in some way who actually did go by the codename of "Null." Of these possibilities, I find the first and second most likely, though if anybody's willing to do the research and find out if any US Gov't agents during the 70's had such a codename, be my guest.
Assuming that the second possibility is true, I can only think of one likely candidate as to who "The Man with the Same Codename as Null" is, but before I say so, I'd like to hear others' thoughts, just so I can see if my theory is completely off track. Speculate away until then.
I take it you're thinking of Major Zero, are you? It's possible, and that would mean he is also the one who orchestrated the events of MGS3.
Like many people, I thought he was a badguy when he nodded at Para-Medic in a sinister fashion while talking to Snake during his parachute jump, then was surprised when nothing came up in the game.
Unless there's some amazing reason for it given in MGS4, I'll be disappointed at yet another "the CO was manipulating Snake" plot twist.
It could also just be a red herring, though. For instance, how could he be feeding Ocelot information while in jail? (Unless Ocelot is referring to some prior instances.) However, there aren't many other candidates, so I think it's either Zero or a brand new character. I do get the feeling his part in the series is not finished, though.
Like many people, I thought he was a badguy when he nodded at Para-Medic in a sinister fashion while talking to Snake during his parachute jump, then was surprised when nothing came up in the game.
Unless there's some amazing reason for it given in MGS4, I'll be disappointed at yet another "the CO was manipulating Snake" plot twist.
It could also just be a red herring, though. For instance, how could he be feeding Ocelot information while in jail? (Unless Ocelot is referring to some prior instances.) However, there aren't many other candidates, so I think it's either Zero or a brand new character. I do get the feeling his part in the series is not finished, though.
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I should certainly hope not. Granted, the fact that Zero isn't really all that present in MPO as a character (did he do any voice work in the game? Cut scenes that have to be unlocked? I played through the game without running into Sigint or Raikov, so I guess that's possible) is a bit of an obstacle here, but he's the only character I can think of.
Nice catch there, man.
Besides Zero's name sharing the sentiment of Null's, I see a few more possibilities. Zero's puported UFO experience sounded familiar to the Crazy Colonel sequence in SoL, though it might not mean too much. Likewise the password of "Who are the <B>Patriots</B>/La-li-lu-le-lo" when Snake meets EVA (who I also considered as a possible candidate, out of her loyalty to the Boss, though she doesn't make a lick of sense besides that.) The CIA's lack of commitment to FOX might have feuled some of the motivation. Also remember how everyone in SE spoke very highly of him on the radio, especially Sigint and Para-Medic-- I didn't think it would be impossible they'd all colaborate on the Les Enfants Terrible project someday. As for Zero being in jail-- well, that just makes him the least likely of suspects, doesn't it? Remember Palpatine in the beginning of ROTS-- masterminds can always pose as victims.
Anyway, I'd prefer if Zero's true role-- or Ocelot's true commander-- were revealed in another MPO game rather than GotP, where it wouldn't make much sense. It's probably unlikely they'll cook up another game for the PSP in that amount of time. Maybe we'll be lucky, but we'd probably be luckier if they decided to take the extra time available and make a somewhat better put together game. Don't get me wrong, I liked it-- just wished it had a tad more polish.
Nice catch there, man.
Besides Zero's name sharing the sentiment of Null's, I see a few more possibilities. Zero's puported UFO experience sounded familiar to the Crazy Colonel sequence in SoL, though it might not mean too much. Likewise the password of "Who are the <B>Patriots</B>/La-li-lu-le-lo" when Snake meets EVA (who I also considered as a possible candidate, out of her loyalty to the Boss, though she doesn't make a lick of sense besides that.) The CIA's lack of commitment to FOX might have feuled some of the motivation. Also remember how everyone in SE spoke very highly of him on the radio, especially Sigint and Para-Medic-- I didn't think it would be impossible they'd all colaborate on the Les Enfants Terrible project someday. As for Zero being in jail-- well, that just makes him the least likely of suspects, doesn't it? Remember Palpatine in the beginning of ROTS-- masterminds can always pose as victims.
Anyway, I'd prefer if Zero's true role-- or Ocelot's true commander-- were revealed in another MPO game rather than GotP, where it wouldn't make much sense. It's probably unlikely they'll cook up another game for the PSP in that amount of time. Maybe we'll be lucky, but we'd probably be luckier if they decided to take the extra time available and make a somewhat better put together game. Don't get me wrong, I liked it-- just wished it had a tad more polish.
Maybe the reason the MIA voice actors were brought back was to record voices for the online mode?
Yeah, being in jail was a good cover, but that would mean he would have another collaborator who arranged to have him arrested. Not too hard to imagine, though.
I think Campbell could serve as the link between all these elements in GotP.
Yeah, being in jail was a good cover, but that would mean he would have another collaborator who arranged to have him arrested. Not too hard to imagine, though.
I think Campbell could serve as the link between all these elements in GotP.
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On some forums I've noticed some people think the Mystery Man is Campbell. I'm not entirely sure how that would logistically work out (did he ever even have a code-name at all?). Also, he's had enough secrets revealed over the course of the saga. My money's on Zero, but if this is leading up to a GotP twist, Campbell wouldn't be a bad idea if you wanted to twist Solid Snake in knots. That being said, it'd also be a really shallow narrative device.
Anyway-- Zero might not need a collaborator to put him in prison. All he'd need would be to manipulate FOX into seemingly betraying the US, which would make everyone suspect him and throw him in jail. All that can be done (semi-plausibly) without another person in the mix.
Just had a thought-- Zero as a James Bond-style mastermind. Very interesting idea, though could go very campy in an MPO sequel (which we pretty much know is going to happen, considering the success of this game.)
Can we think of anybody else it might be?
Anyway-- Zero might not need a collaborator to put him in prison. All he'd need would be to manipulate FOX into seemingly betraying the US, which would make everyone suspect him and throw him in jail. All that can be done (semi-plausibly) without another person in the mix.
Just had a thought-- Zero as a James Bond-style mastermind. Very interesting idea, though could go very campy in an MPO sequel (which we pretty much know is going to happen, considering the success of this game.)
Can we think of anybody else it might be?
Campbell being a traitor would be a big blow. I'd hate to see that happen. I don't think it will, though.
I thought the CIA orchestrated the whole FOX revolt as an excuse to maintain its power? And then it still threw Zero in jail... Maybe to maintain the official story? I'll need to play the game again sometime.
I can't think of anyone else it could be at the moment.
I thought the CIA orchestrated the whole FOX revolt as an excuse to maintain its power? And then it still threw Zero in jail... Maybe to maintain the official story? I'll need to play the game again sometime.
I can't think of anyone else it could be at the moment.
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Well, it's obvious that Ocelot and the Mystery Man were manipulating the CIA, Pentagon, FOX etc. in order to destroy the Philosophers, inagurate the <B>Patriots</B> and avenge the Boss' death during SE. Zero's still a likely suspect, in my opinion. In fact, when I first heard of MPO, I assumed he'd be the traitorous leader of FOX during the game. I wouldn't have put it past him then, and I certainly don't think him incapable of orchestrating an elaborate Illuminati coup like this. If he is the Mystery Man, however, he's obviously also the mastermind behind the Les Enfants Terrible project, which seems interestingly tied in with the destiny of Gray Fox, it now seems.
Jesus, I hope Kojima decides to remake the original Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land chapters of the saga for the PSP. I believe it's perfectly possible to do justice to the original MSX games while updating the graphics, gameplay and story presentation to a current gen system-- if only a portable one-- while also tying them into a deeper, more sophisticated relationship with the ongoing continuity.
Jesus, I hope Kojima decides to remake the original Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land chapters of the saga for the PSP. I believe it's perfectly possible to do justice to the original MSX games while updating the graphics, gameplay and story presentation to a current gen system-- if only a portable one-- while also tying them into a deeper, more sophisticated relationship with the ongoing continuity.
The question is why, though. He and The Boss were in the SAS together, weren't they? Maybe he was betrayed by the UK (hence the scar?), and that's what motivating him. But it says this person orchestrated all the events in Snake Eater. Maybe he wanted to ensure the last survivor of The Philosophers was destroyed.
It wouldn't surprise me if they do remake them. They scored high in the remakes question in the survey at TGS, and KP recently asked TUS readers if they should be remade, so they're surely looking into it. Yet more milking, or worth the time and effort story-wise?
It wouldn't surprise me if they do remake them. They scored high in the remakes question in the survey at TGS, and KP recently asked TUS readers if they should be remade, so they're surely looking into it. Yet more milking, or worth the time and effort story-wise?
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They'd be worth it, if for no other reason than so Kojima can finally get the story straight once and for all. I love his inventiveness with each installment of the saga, but his tendency to cause continuity errors with his constant retconning can get a little unnerving. Did Big Boss find Frank Jaeger in Vietnam, as was stated in MG2, or Mozambique, as was stated in MPO? Perhaps my memory's failing me on that one. Did Big Boss really reveal that he was Snake's father prior to their mortal combat in Zanzibar Land, as was stated in MGS, or did he have to discover it later, since no such dialogue exists between them in MG2? Anyway, there's still more questions we don't know the answers to. I'm sure we've all got mysteries we'd like to know more about.
Anyway-- the person who manipulated the events of MPO is not the person who manipulated the events of SE. Rather, the person who manipulated the events of MPO seems to be working to get revenge for the events of SE. Ocelot's comment about "making the world she envisioned a reality" suggests that he and the Mystery Man are founding the <B>Patriots</B> in order to continue the Boss' legacy by uniting the world, making it whole again under a New World Order. Don't confuse what Gene said about the CIA/Pentagon manipulating Volgin with what's going on in MPO-- after all, the CIA and the Pentagon are the targets of Ocelot and the Mystery Man, or at least that's what they're bluffing in order to assasinate the remaining Philosophers and steal their documents. Now, Gene did say that one man orchestrated the events of SE, but I'm not entirely sure it's the same person as the Mystery Man of MPO. Heck, it's probably just the Director of the CIA Ocelot spoke to at the end of the game, which seems to be a different person than Ocelot's new backer.
I don't know. I'll have to view the cut-scenes again on YouTube to get it all straight. Still, if Zero wanted to kill all the remaining survivors of the Philosophers, wouldn't he want to kill Ocelot as well?
Anyway-- glad to see Kojima found a way to make one of the boss fights interesting on a stylistic level, in regards to Gene's mental powers. He's dissapointingly easy to beat, but the whole Big Brother effect he pulls off is very satisfying. Any thoughts on the actual gameplay of MPO, or should we open up a new thread for that?
Anyway-- the person who manipulated the events of MPO is not the person who manipulated the events of SE. Rather, the person who manipulated the events of MPO seems to be working to get revenge for the events of SE. Ocelot's comment about "making the world she envisioned a reality" suggests that he and the Mystery Man are founding the <B>Patriots</B> in order to continue the Boss' legacy by uniting the world, making it whole again under a New World Order. Don't confuse what Gene said about the CIA/Pentagon manipulating Volgin with what's going on in MPO-- after all, the CIA and the Pentagon are the targets of Ocelot and the Mystery Man, or at least that's what they're bluffing in order to assasinate the remaining Philosophers and steal their documents. Now, Gene did say that one man orchestrated the events of SE, but I'm not entirely sure it's the same person as the Mystery Man of MPO. Heck, it's probably just the Director of the CIA Ocelot spoke to at the end of the game, which seems to be a different person than Ocelot's new backer.
I don't know. I'll have to view the cut-scenes again on YouTube to get it all straight. Still, if Zero wanted to kill all the remaining survivors of the Philosophers, wouldn't he want to kill Ocelot as well?
Anyway-- glad to see Kojima found a way to make one of the boss fights interesting on a stylistic level, in regards to Gene's mental powers. He's dissapointingly easy to beat, but the whole Big Brother effect he pulls off is very satisfying. Any thoughts on the actual gameplay of MPO, or should we open up a new thread for that?
But do we know things like whether this mystery guy knows Ocelot's real origin? There are a lot of things we don't know. The mystery person could just be the CIA Director like you said, the way that Ocelot calls him at the end of SE.
The thing is, when things get this criss-crossed and confusing, that's when I begin to stop caring. You need a road map just to remember everything, never mind try to read the future.
The thing is, when things get this criss-crossed and confusing, that's when I begin to stop caring. You need a road map just to remember everything, never mind try to read the future.
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Just remembered a detail from SE, just in case we need any more evidence to implicate Zero...
Ocelot was supposed to be the original spy Snake was supposed to team up with-- ADAM-- until EVA beat him to the punch. Zero had set up a password for the two of them-- "Who are the <B>Patriots</B>?"/"La le lu li lo"-- which was meant to have been exchanged between them. Considering that Ocelot grows to become a member of the <B>Patriots</B> and MPO reveals him to be one of its founders, along with this Mystery Man, perhaps that exchange wasn't such an in-jokey throwaway as was initially thought. Maybe it really is the first clue to a relationship between Zero and Ocelot.
Eh. Just thought I'd point it out.
Ocelot was supposed to be the original spy Snake was supposed to team up with-- ADAM-- until EVA beat him to the punch. Zero had set up a password for the two of them-- "Who are the <B>Patriots</B>?"/"La le lu li lo"-- which was meant to have been exchanged between them. Considering that Ocelot grows to become a member of the <B>Patriots</B> and MPO reveals him to be one of its founders, along with this Mystery Man, perhaps that exchange wasn't such an in-jokey throwaway as was initially thought. Maybe it really is the first clue to a relationship between Zero and Ocelot.
Eh. Just thought I'd point it out.
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Look at the cunning strategist and ADAM/Ocelot. They sure look like the same person. Don't ask me how. Link below:
http://www.picspirate.com/img123/img34/ ... tegist.bmp
http://www.picspirate.com/img123/img34/ ... tegist.bmp
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Well, just because Ocelot could be the Cunning Strategist doesn't have anything to do with Zero being The Man With the Same Code-Name as Null. Remember, we know Ocelot's strings are being pulled by somebody, though even Ocelot himself doesn't know who it is until the endgame phone-call. Ocelot being the one who organized the Boss' assasination seems interesting, but odd-- why would he then create the <B>Patriots</B> in her memory? Also remember that he was in the Hind when Volgin fired the Davy Crocket, pleading to keep it from happening.
Something I noticed on my second playthrough-- check out the paper Snake (or Campbell-- difficult to tell who it is) gets at the end of MPO from Zero (at least I think it's Zero, just like I think the guy standing next to him is Robert S. McNamara), which he then stays up at night looking at. It looks like it has the FOXHOUND symbol as its letterhead-- though it's the modern symbol, and not the grinning "Foxy" character from MG2. Any thoughts as to this possible development?
Something I noticed on my second playthrough-- check out the paper Snake (or Campbell-- difficult to tell who it is) gets at the end of MPO from Zero (at least I think it's Zero, just like I think the guy standing next to him is Robert S. McNamara), which he then stays up at night looking at. It looks like it has the FOXHOUND symbol as its letterhead-- though it's the modern symbol, and not the grinning "Foxy" character from MG2. Any thoughts as to this possible development?
Something tells me that it can't be Campbell, even though some people are going off the "Grey Fox - Chicken Fox" same codename possibility. Firstly, here's the main reason why it can't be Campbell -- Null wasn't even known as Grey Fox until he joined FOXHOUND, which wasn't even established until late 1971 - after the events of Portable Ops. Also, Null = nothing = 0 = Zero. Kind of obvious, I know, but just stating the facts via a process of elimination.
First and foremost, it isn't Campbell. That's guaranteed, more or less. Which leaves either Zero, or a new character. Personally, I'm hoping it's Zero. I mean, come on, it's always the British who turn out to be the villains. If Kojima knows his movies, then he must be aware of the cliche. Secondly, there's that whole "Who are the <B>Patriots</B>? -- La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo" message in MGS3, which I see as more of a premonition than an easter egg, a prelude of things to come.
First and foremost, it isn't Campbell. That's guaranteed, more or less. Which leaves either Zero, or a new character. Personally, I'm hoping it's Zero. I mean, come on, it's always the British who turn out to be the villains. If Kojima knows his movies, then he must be aware of the cliche. Secondly, there's that whole "Who are the <B>Patriots</B>? -- La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo" message in MGS3, which I see as more of a premonition than an easter egg, a prelude of things to come.
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One problem; Zero will be dead since he would be well over one hundred in MGS4! Unless he wants another Elijah Modnar of course.Gaff wrote:Something tells me that it can't be Campbell, even though some people are going off the "Grey Fox - Chicken Fox" same codename possibility. Firstly, here's the main reason why it can't be Campbell -- Null wasn't even known as Grey Fox until he joined FOXHOUND, which wasn't even established until late 1971 - after the events of Portable Ops. Also, Null = nothing = 0 = Zero. Kind of obvious, I know, but just stating the facts via a process of elimination.
First and foremost, it isn't Campbell. That's guaranteed, more or less. Which leaves either Zero, or a new character. Personally, I'm hoping it's Zero. I mean, come on, it's always the British who turn out to be the villains. If Kojima knows his movies, then he must be aware of the cliche. Secondly, there's that whole "Who are the <B><B>Patriots</B></B>? -- La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo" message in MGS3, which I see as more of a premonition than an easter egg, a prelude of things to come.

Who knows, perhaps Ocelot is just trying to set up Zero by saying that? I mean, he is calling him Null, just in case his voice is recorded by any of the other rival Philosophers. It would certainly mislead them; have you ever thought of that theory? If you think about it, Ocelot is almost making it too obvious that it is Zero, perhaps for a reason; which I have stated.
I still think it is Campbell.