Cancelled and Beta games website

A forum to talk about stuff that doesn't fit in other categories, such as general Kojima games discussion, other games, etc.
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87th
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Kojima games owned: METALGEAR SERIES
MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Cancelled and Beta games website

Post by 87th »

This is really pretty interesting. All it is is a bunch of early screenshots and videos, but that alone is quite a nice prospect. Some games like Ocarina Of Time and REZ started off incredibly different to how they ended up-
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http://unseen64.tk/
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Post by Artemio »

Thank God =)
From the mathematical perspective, consciousness might be regarded as a second derivative of sensation.
-- Terrel Miedaner

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Policenauts (PS1)
Policenauts (Saturn)
Metal Gear Solid (PS1, EU)
Metal Gear Solid: Integral (PC, EU)
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Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance (PC, EU)
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (PS2, US)
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Post by epitaph »

http://lostlevels.org is another site on the same topic. Has some interesting stuff.
Last edited by epitaph on Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The west, so afraid of powerful government, now has no government. Only financial power."

Localization, not translation.

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Favorite Game: MetalGear 2: Solid Snake
Kojima games owned: METALGEAR SERIES
MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Post by 87th »

Snatcher wrote:Thank God =)
Oh, definitely! :lol:

I find it pretty interesting, though. I've seen all the MGS stuff before, but I still like seeing it.

It seems that MGS was originally supposed to begin like MG2 with Snake climbing a cliff's edge, rather than swimming in to some kind of underground section. I don't really understand why that was changed, as it doesn't really make sense that there would be an unconnected underground storage section next to a nuclear warhead storage facility. Maybe it was supposed to try and reference both games? MetalGear starts with Snake entering a base from the water, and then taking an elevator to the base. MG2 starts on a cliff edge outside the base. MGS does both.

I also find it interesting that MGS2's visual style was originally supposed to be so heavily stylised, and based around Shinkawa's artwork speciffically. It really shows how highly Kojima thought of him. It's also worth considering whether the unlikely plot would have been better recieved if the visuals weren't as realistic.

I don't have much to consider on the early MGS3 stuff. I just wonder whether Kojima originally planned an open, free-roaming journey towards a base (as suggested in earlier interviews) and made cut-backs, or whether he always planned to have a set path.
Last edited by 87th on Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kojima games owned: METALGEAR SERIES
MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Post by 87th »

epitaph wrote:(not limited to N64 games though).
Did you look at the website? It looks at everything from 8-Bit era to current gen. Not limited to Nintendo, either.
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Post by epitaph »

87th wrote:
epitaph wrote:(not limited to N64 games though).
Did you look at the website? It looks at everything from 8-Bit era to current gen. Not limited to Nintendo, either.
Yep, I did, that's why edited the post. I figured it was another site I encountered a few months ago as this one had a similar name, but later discovered that wasn't the case. I guess this is proof that "leap before you look" isn't the best strategy to employ in cases like this.
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Localization, not translation.

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Post by Marc »

87th wrote:It seems that MGS was originally supposed to begin like MG2 with Snake climbing a cliff's edge, rather than swimming in to some kind of underground section. I don't really understand why that was changed, as it doesn't really make sense that there would be an unconnected underground storage section next to a nuclear warhead storage facility.
They added the cargo dock section later on to force you to focus on stealth in the first area of the game. This was to introduce the main gameplay aspect of the game to players here.
87th wrote:I don't have much to consider on the early MGS3 stuff. I just wonder whether Kojima originally planned an open, free-roaming journey towards a base (as suggested in earlier interviews) and made cut-backs, or whether he always planned to have a set path.
That was how I was imagining the game when MGS3 was first announced. I was a little disappointed when it came out and I discovered it was still set paths. They probably had to do it that way since completely free-roaming would've been too much for the game system.
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MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Post by 87th »

I'm pretty sure that he said something that mentioned a free-roaming aspect in an early interview with CVG (naturally, i'd trancribe it if I could find it amoungst my four huge boxes of old games magazines). Something like "There will be a military base like in old Metal Gear, but 70% of MGS3 will be sneaking towards the base. It won't all be jungle, either. You can choose the best course, whether that's a cave or the mountains or the jungle.". That's probably nothing like what he said, but I'm sure he mentioned all those features and the "30% military base" thing.
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Post by Henry Spencer »

RE 1.5...a lost gem.
I remember seeing a demo for MGS1 that looked really different than it did now, it showed the soldiers in completely different outfits and Snake looked rather different as well, can't remember where it was though. :???:
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MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Post by 87th »

Henry Spencer wrote: I remember seeing a demo for MGS1 that looked really different than it did now, it showed the soldiers in completely different outfits and Snake looked rather different as well, can't remember where it was though. :???:
This one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0GQTum9QvE
Or maybe this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOmR_oX7nDg

They're both on the site's YouTube account-
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=monokoma
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Metal Gear Solid (PSX)
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Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (PS2)
Policenauts (Saturn/PSX/3DO)
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Zone Of The Enders (PS2)
Zone Of The Enders 2: Special Edition (PS2)
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Post by Henry Spencer »

That would be the first video. Oh and I liked the second one, how intriguing. :grin:

Thanks for those.
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Post by Squallidus »

Those cunts have stolen a lot of my and bio's stuff. They don't give credit, I spit on them!
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Post by 8bitsonic »

Who do I have to kill to get my hands on that Super Mario World beta? You never hear or see anything about Mario betas, but I'd love to play some. None have ever been leaked either, which shows you how secure Nintendo is about their betas compared to Sega, who've managed to leak about a gazillion Sonic betas.
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Post by Missing »

87th wrote:It seems that MGS was originally supposed to begin like MG2 with Snake climbing a cliff's edge, rather than swimming in to some kind of underground section. I don't really understand why that was changed, as it doesn't really make sense that there would be an unconnected underground storage section next to a nuclear warhead storage facility.
Well, it's a cargo dock. I'm not sure why that would need any further explanation. It doesn't seem so disconnected when you consider they had to get supplies on base somehow. In my opinion, it allows for a much more dramatic opening than if Snake were to scale the cliff like some mountain man.
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Kojima games owned: METALGEAR SERIES
MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
PSN: eighty7th
Wii Friend Code: 4890580757769739
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Post by 87th »

Missing wrote:Well, it's a cargo dock. I'm not sure why that would need any further explanation. It doesn't seem so disconnected when you consider they had to get supplies on base somehow.
It's built inside an underwater cavern. The idea that supplies are shipped via submarine is a bit strange, especially if in TTS where the entrance is protected by lasers (and it's built right beside a helipad with a nearby cargo trucks). Surely any inhabited island should have a public dock? Can't they get their supplies to come in through that? (ArmsTech aren't owned by the government, just in business with them, aren't they?)
I'm reading far too far into it, but I'd just like to jusitify my reasoning behind why I think the area is a little odd.
Missing
Second Lieutenant
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:09 am

Post by Missing »

I don't think the cavern is underwater. It's simply sheltered inside the cliff. You can see quite plainly at the start of the game that the long tunnel Snake emerges from would allow for cargo boats to be brought in and out. I don't think it would ever be possible to fit a submarine through that small an area though. It's just one cargo area out of many located on a specific point of the ArmsTech base. I'm sure it wasn't their only method of retrieving supplies, as you've suggested, but there if they needed it.

And as for Twin Snakes, let's just ignore those small and irrelevant discrepancies, especially when pertaining to the series proper.
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