So what did everyone think of Twin Snakes??

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ReasonWhyNot
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So what did everyone think of Twin Snakes??

Post by ReasonWhyNot »

Just wondering. Haven't seen much talk about it around here.
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Johnny Undaunted
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Post by Johnny Undaunted »

Because it sucked! :P
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Post by hybridtheory »

Think Planet of the Apes. It stands on it's own as a good game, but compared to the original it falls flat on its face.
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Post by ReasonWhyNot »

Johnny Undaunted wrote:Because it sucked! :P
I thought that was probably the reason. Don't worry, I agree with you. Partially. It was totally unnecessary as a game, but it's still MGS1 in its essence, and that certainly doesn't suck.
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Post by Johnny Undaunted »

ReasonWhyNot wrote:
Johnny Undaunted wrote:Because it sucked! :P
I thought that was probably the reason. Don't worry, I agree with you. Partially. It was totally unnecessary as a game, but it's still MGS1 in its essence, and that certainly doesn't suck.
"Sucks" is probably too harsh of a word, but I consider Twin Snakes to be the second weakest Metal Gear game, next to the NES Metal Gear. Which is even more ironic since I enjoyed both, Snake's Revenge and Ghost Babel (both non-canonical sequels to the original Metal Gear and both for Nintendo platforms). Of course, then there's Ac!d to be seen (which has the possibility of sucking in a cosmic level just for the absurd premise alone, but I heard it's actually a decent game on it's own).

And most of us made our feeling clear on Twin Snakes on another thread. Long-story short, they simply tried implementing techniques from MGS2 into level designs that were made with abilities from MGS1 in mind and thus, making everything horribly unbalanced.
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Post by Artemio »

Oh so true... But you could tell all along when you saw the trailers.. not for the same public, I'd (politely) say....
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Post by Painaxl »

To me, Twin Snakes was an "interactive storybook" for MGS1. The previous posts hit it right on the head; with the MGS2 engine, MGS1 is MUCH easier. The graphics are, of course, a lot better than the PS1 original, but a lot of people took issue with the cutscenes. I liked them. I understood that they weren't going to be what I remembered, and that it was a different director's interpretation of the game.

It's not as bad as many hardcore fans would have you believe as long as you understand that it's not meant to replace the original. I think it works at it's current price (about $20 brand new).

While I do agree that it didn't NEED to be made, it's a nice refresher to the storyline and doesn't do anything too drastic to change the main themes and images of the game.
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Post by Ninja Kurosai »

It wasn't too good. I didn't even finish it once. I just stopped at Vulcan Raven (2nd time) and never played it again, there was no real reason to. I kinda enjoyed it the first time though.
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Post by ReasonWhyNot »

I told everyone from the beginning that the game was a bad idea. All an interest of money and not of the game itself. They sold it on the graphics alone. Despite every complaint there is, people still seem to care only about graphics (which didn't even compare to the already two year old MGS2). I still love the grphics on the original MGS1, so I can't understand the complaints. The cinemas are good for a Kitamura film, but not Metal Gear. And I like Kitamura. To me, he's the equivalent of a Japanese John Woo. But that doesn't mean he can instantly make something already widely regarded as a classic even better, just because he's an actual filmmaker. Thankfully, I wasn't disappointed with the game, because my expectations were too low to begin with. Truthfully though, they could've made a very good remake of MGS1. Certain moves from MGS2 would work within the confounds of MGS1, such as rolling or jumping out from behind corners to shoot. It's unfortunate they didn't think about the idea longer, rather than just trying to get it out on the shelves as fast as possible. Kojima is really the one to blame. He's selling out this franchise too much. Comic books, action figures, trading cards, spin-off games, cell-phone ports, etc. It's ridiculous. He's a fantastic game creator and should remain that. He doesn't need to be an entrepeneur. I'd have more respect for him if I felt that he wasn't doing all of this just to earn a few dollars. Even all these sequels he's crating is a bit much. They're fantastic games, but he's running this series on too long. Maybe I just think like that though, because I look at him as an artist primarily, instead of a man who wants to create games that the entire world can enjoy. It'd still be nice to see more original titles from him, because I always know it'll be something unique.
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Post by Artemio »

ReasonWhyNot wrote:...Kojima is really the one to blame. He's selling out this franchise too much. Comic books, action figures, trading cards, spin-off games, cell-phone ports, etc. It's ridiculous. He's a fantastic game creator and should remain that. He doesn't need to be an entrepeneur. I'd have more respect for him if I felt that he wasn't doing all of this just to earn a few dollars....
Do you really believe Kojima has the copyrights and rights to merchandise that stuff? It is Konami my friend, that's exactly the reason why Kojima wants to move on to other things, because MG has become too big and is a cow that needs to be milked. Not that I like the particular idea, I hate it...

And that is the reason there will be another Metal Gear games (probably not "solid") and an online variation.

And I love KOnami and merchandise, but not to that level and with that purpose.
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Post by Johnny Undaunted »

Yeah really! I don't think there's even such a thing as a creator-owned videogame franchise (especially considering it requires a large staff nowadays to make a game for a mainstream platform).
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Post by Omega579 »

Hi I'm new here, a refugee from the Gamefaqs board in need of intelligent discussion...
I'm not a big fan of Twin Snakes only for the reason of the cutscenes. MGS1 and MGS2 gave you a good idea of who Snake is. Within the confines of the story we knew what was real in Snake's universe and what he can and cannot do. What turned me onto MGS1 when I first popped it into my PS1 back in '98 was the sense of "realism" in a fantasy world. There was an atmosphere, a set of procedures that reflected the real world. Now what Twin Snakes did as far as the cutscenes was it broke the rules layed out by the previous incarnations. Snake's technical movements are based on his military background with a little bit of big screen movie action. Twin Snakes took what we knew of Snake and replaced him with Kitamura's version of what he thought Snake is. This took me out of the story completely because it felt like another actor was portraying my favorite character. I recorded the Twin Snakes cutscenes on dvd and made an edit where I felt Snake breaks character, so no useless backflipping or blowing up debris with grenades for me.
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Post by Artemio »

I believe you could not have not described the general feeling ore precisely, because I think most of us felt that way about the cutscenes.

I also did found another things disturbing, but not as much as the cutscenes and their consequences. They simply are the musical changes (which I *could* live with if I want to) and the general quality that we are used to find in Kojima games, the attention to small details, is not there. I refer to the interaction of the model with the backgrounds, the way the models bend, the general look in faces and expresions, the quality in motion capture and animation with the engine using the data.

Anyway, it was an ok attempt for us, but it is the introduction game for another generaion, and that is what really bothers me. That a different public will be attracted to the game with the wrong ideas and would probably face shock with the real series.
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Post by Omega579 »

Yes, if anything the biggest tragedy in Twin Snakes is the musical score. I was hoping they would essentially keep the original score and enhance it with motifs like a John Williams score. But it turned out so pedestrian like a typical Jerry Bruckheimer satisfy me now prodution. It's too bad they didn't include more of the MGS main theme into the score since it was lacking in the original MGS. And the exclusion of Enclosure was the final straw.
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Post by Jonathan Ingram »

Aside from what's been mentioned, I have just one other problem with TS. Snake's mouth. What the hell is going on with that in the cut scenes? It's like someone pumped his lips full of brine. Awful. Other than that, I like the character models from TS (aside from Otacon perhaps), and don't really have a problem accepting it as a "next gen" version of MGS, as I'll always have the original to go back to (which I always do).
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Post by Snake Plissken »

Jonathan Ingram wrote:Aside from what's been mentioned, I have just one other problem with TS. Snake's mouth. What the hell is going on with that in the cut scenes? It's like someone pumped his lips full of brine. Awful. Other than that, I like the character models from TS (aside from Otacon perhaps), and don't really have a problem accepting it as a "next gen" version of MGS, as I'll always have the original to go back to (which I always do).
Same with snake eater in most parts, it's like watching a "voice translated" version of Godzilla V.S. Megalon.
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Post by Ninja Kurosai »

Snake Plissken wrote:
Jonathan Ingram wrote:Aside from what's been mentioned, I have just one other problem with TS. Snake's mouth. What the hell is going on with that in the cut scenes? It's like someone pumped his lips full of brine. Awful. Other than that, I like the character models from TS (aside from Otacon perhaps), and don't really have a problem accepting it as a "next gen" version of MGS, as I'll always have the original to go back to (which I always do).
Same with snake eater in most parts, it's like watching a "voice translated" version of Godzilla V.S. Megalon.
That could have been intentional on Kojima's part :wink:
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Post by Red Falcon »

I didn't like the voice acting and the changed music in addition to the re-done cutscenes and MGS2 gameplay making it easy.
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Post by randomwab »

I think the problem here to outsiders would be that we are all considered here to be MGS fanatics. To normal gamers, we would seem the people who bought MGS and played it for months to get every piece out, where others would have got it, completed it, and moved on to the next GTA or something. Then when they play the twin snakes, because they either didnt think that much of the first or didnt play it enough to notice the changes, they then consider it to be great. Anyone who has a problem with twin snakes on this board has most probably played MGS to death, and still is. I admit this as i have, but because of this it seems clear to me what thay have changed and the bad parts. I will use the example of people in my class at school, these are the ones who wernt caring of MGS2 when it came out because they were still playing GTA Vice City over 5 months after its release. When they do play it, they dont enjoy it as much as they should, and complain about the boring cut scenes, so a few years later, BAM, Twin Snakes comes out, remake of the first, and the cut scenes are improved so that the average Joe enjoys Snake backflipping of missiles. I just think that Twin Snakes is bad to us because we devoted so long to the original, where as to others it is a fine game. I myself stoped playing it one day because i got pissed of with the crap sound from the SOCOM and the foot steps sound. Normal gamers wouldnt find this bad, but they would play this until the next Action packed block buster. GTA San Andreas bored me within 2 weeks, there was barely a story and it seemed to me to be just drive drive drive, and when you stripped back the slightly new things, it was the same thing, but my friends at school could play it for months, and this led me to believe that this was because i prefare a good mix of gameplay and story, plus in my opinoun, i think Twin Snakes was slightly over shadowed by Snake Eater. Anyway, thats enough of my ramblings
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Post by Ninja Kurosai »

Red Falcon wrote:I didn't like the voice acting and the changed music in addition to the re-done cutscenes and MGS2 gameplay making it easy.
YES! I wanted to smash my gamcube after hearing Naomi's new voice. I came close to doing it though....:'(
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Post by Snake Plissken »

randomwab wrote:I think the problem here to outsiders would be that we are all considered here to be MGS fanatics. To normal gamers, we would seem the people who bought MGS and played it for months to get every piece out, where others would have got it, completed it, and moved on to the next GTA or something. Then when they play the twin snakes, because they either didnt think that much of the first or didnt play it enough to notice the changes, they then consider it to be great. Anyone who has a problem with twin snakes on this board has most probably played MGS to death, and still is. I admit this as i have, but because of this it seems clear to me what thay have changed and the bad parts. I will use the example of people in my class at school, these are the ones who wernt caring of MGS2 when it came out because they were still playing GTA Vice City over 5 months after its release. When they do play it, they dont enjoy it as much as they should, and complain about the boring cut scenes, so a few years later, BAM, Twin Snakes comes out, remake of the first, and the cut scenes are improved so that the average Joe enjoys Snake backflipping of missiles. I just think that Twin Snakes is bad to us because we devoted so long to the original, where as to others it is a fine game. I myself stoped playing it one day because i got pissed of with the crap sound from the SOCOM and the foot steps sound. Normal gamers wouldnt find this bad, but they would play this until the next Action packed block buster. GTA San Andreas bored me within 2 weeks, there was barely a story and it seemed to me to be just drive drive drive, and when you stripped back the slightly new things, it was the same thing, but my friends at school could play it for months, and this led me to believe that this was because i prefare a good mix of gameplay and story, plus in my opinoun, i think Twin Snakes was slightly over shadowed by Snake Eater. Anyway, thats enough of my ramblings
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Post by ReasonWhyNot »

Snatcher wrote:Do you really believe Kojima has the copyrights and rights to merchandise that stuff? It is Konami my friend, that's exactly the reason why Kojima wants to move on to other things, because MG has become too big and is a cow that needs to be milked. Not that I like the particular idea, I hate it...
He's vice-president of Konami. You don't expect me to believe he doesn't have any control over the merchandising of his stuff. I'm sure back in the days of Snatcher and Policenauts he had very little control over his franchises, but nowadays I wouldn't imagine that to be so.

By the way Kurosai, good to see a Taxi Driver fan on these boards. It's my favorite Scorsese' picture.
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Post by Artemio »

ReasonWhyNot wrote:He's vice-president of Konami. You don't expect me to believe he doesn't have any control over the merchandising of his stuff. I'm sure back in the days of Snatcher and Policenauts he had very little control over his franchises, but nowadays I wouldn't imagine that to be so.
Indeed, he has now some control.. but there is a big conflict of interests being in taht position (I can tell that myself since I am in a similar position at the company I work). he has to respond to actionist, to investment groups. He has to maximize income, not please what he wants to do.


Besides, it is not a one person desicion. They probably have a board that decides what is published and what not depending on what they sense the market wants, and tehy also must probably have a group of creative staff that does propositions on what to market out there. Not as easy as it might appear to be. Konami is waaay to big in Japan (at least 14 offices, I have the picture of that).
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Post by Johnny Undaunted »

ReasonWhyNot wrote: He's vice-president of Konami.
Correction. Vice-President of KCE Japan (the branch of Konami Corp that does the MGS games, which is about to merge with it by the end of the fiscal year).
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Post by Jonathan Ingram »

Indeed, Konami is massive, they have fingers in all the pies in the world, arcade machines, DVDs, CDs (in Japan) and games of course, but they also make model kitsl in Europe. They are huge.
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