Metal gear rateing

Discussion related to the most well-known series by Kojima. News, debate and any related discussions are welcome. IMPORTANT Any topics related to MGS4 should temporarily go in the appropriate forum. Please keep spoilers out of signatures too.
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fogleus
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Metal gear rateing

Post by fogleus »

what is your reaction or reply to someone who states that metal gear is OVERATED
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Post by Snake700 »

You mean it´s for 15 old kids and so on? yeah it should be for 12 and over the same goes with Metal Gear Acid they said that there are sexual content in the game! I have completed the game and there´s no sexual content oh those guys that are giving the games a age raiting are not good at they job
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Post by Ninja Kurosai »

Snake700 wrote:You mean it´s for 15 old kids and so on? yeah it should be for 12 and over the same goes with Metal Gear Acid they said that there are sexual content in the game! I have completed the game and there´s no sexual content oh those guys that are giving the games a age raiting are not good at they job
...He means as in the games receive too much praise, not the content rating.
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Post by Missing »

It depends on what the criticisms are. If someone is complaining about the storylines being overdrawn and silly, I would have to agree. I do like the way Kojima uses a Hollywood spy-formula or film noir to construct his stories, but I think he takes the drama too far in most cases. I despise the romances and don't like feeling manipulated into feeling sorry for characters who only seconds earlier I had made a priority to destroy. I can't even watch any of the cutscenes that feature Otacon bawling like a little girl, they're that painful.

Kojima's best at making convoluted mysteries. Policenauts, Snatcher, and MGS1. The stories in those games work best when they're keeping you in the dark about what the real mystery is, while slowly unraveling little by little. That's what keeps me entertained. But listening to two characters squabble about their fears or dreams is just so unengaging. I suppose Kojima received complaints about Snake being a one-dimensional character, which is probably why he created Raiden to be a character who was deep with emotional conflict. The same goes for Big Boss in MGS3. But that's uninteresting to me, because it doesn't feel genuine. As if Kojima's stories weren't far-fetched enough, I have to believe that two characters are going to debate about what's reality in the middle of a nuclear crisis. Give me a break.

Now as for the gameplay, it's always been fantastic, but seeing as how MGS2 was so story intensive it ruined the balance that was created in MGS1 -- especially since the story was so ridiculous. MGS1 was perfect in that respect. It had a perfect combination of both story and gameplay. As for MGS3, I loved the main gameplay as always, but the added RPG elements of CAMO, CURE, and FOOD were pointless additions. They detracted from a lot of the fun moments I had from constantly needing to eat and cure battle wounds. The story in 3 was alright. I didn't love it like I did 1, but it was certainly loads more entertaining than 2.

Even if the gameplay in MGS2 and 3 tops what is in MGS1, I still enjoy MGS1 the most out of all three because it is the most well-balanced in the series. I enjoy the story more because it's not trying to be as emotional or profound. I thought the voice actor's did their best work as well in MGS1. They really did a great job of making the characters seem memorable to me (Snake was cool, Naomi was distraut, Mei Ling was cute, the Colonel was desperate, Liquid was maniacal, Mantis was maniacal, Ocelot was maniacal, Wolf was sexy, Otacon was annoying, and Raven was hard-edged). Even when I play the game to this day, while some of the dialogue sounds a bit silly at times, it's never silly in a bad way. MGS2 and 3 just don't have the same luck unfortunately.

So in response to your question, I consider MGS2 and 3 to be overrated. However, MGS1 I would consider underrated only because it's considered outdated by today's standards. People take the gameplay and graphics for granted these days, even though they're still top-notch and amazingly detailed. And even though the game isn't anywhere near as polished visually as MGS2 and 3, the grittiness of the visuals only adds to its charm.
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Post by Tao »

Missing wrote:It depends on what the criticisms are. If someone is complaining about the storylines being overdrawn and silly, I would have to agree. I do like the way Kojima uses a Hollywood spy-formula or film noir to construct his stories, but I think he takes the drama too far in most cases. I despise the romances and don't like feeling manipulated into feeling sorry for characters who only seconds earlier I had made a priority to destroy. I can't even watch any of the cutscenes that feature Otacon bawling like a little girl, they're that painful.
Hehe, that's funny, because I think a lot of people here consider MGS2 to be the best in the series...have you read this? :smile:
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Post by Snake700 »

Missing wrote:It depends on what the criticisms are. If someone is complaining about the storylines being overdrawn and silly, I would have to agree. I do like the way Kojima uses a Hollywood spy-formula or film noir to construct his stories, but I think he takes the drama too far in most cases. I despise the romances and don't like feeling manipulated into feeling sorry for characters who only seconds earlier I had made a priority to destroy. I can't even watch any of the cutscenes that feature Otacon bawling like a little girl, they're that painful.
Unlike you some people like to feel sorry for characters like me like in MGS3 i almost cryed at both the ending and(spoilers)and when i got to shoot the boss it was a really sad moment because now she was a good person even though she turned to the russians and i dinínt want to press the fire botton because i wanted her to live now that was sad(spoilers end)I think that sadness and all those feeling moments are a part of the MGS series
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Post by Rick Deckard »

Scenes like that in MGS3 really struck me as deperately trying to envoke those sort of emotions in the player but failing miserably because of its story and characters being so appallingly written. Same thing happened with Otacon & Emma and Raiden & Rose in MGS2 - I think the only MGS game that was successful in making you genuinely care about the characters was the first one, because they were well-written and it felt natural.

Ah. I've just read Missing's post and have to say he's spewed out a great big liquid jet of sensibleness all over the page.

Tao wrote:Hehe, that's funny, because I think a lot of people here consider MGS2 to be the best in the series...have you read this?
That article's really just a response to those people who didn't like MGS2 because it was too ridiculous, though, isn't it? A lot of people don't rate it highly because it wasn't particularly well-written or interesting.
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Post by Tao »

Rick Deckard wrote: That article's really just a response to those people who didn't like MGS2 because it was too ridiculous, though, isn't it? A lot of people don't rate it highly because it wasn't particularly well-written.
Well, yeah, but the two tend in this case tend to go hand in hand at times, don't they?
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Post by Missing »

Snake700 wrote:Unlike you some people like to feel sorry for characters like me like in MGS3 i almost cryed at both the ending and(spoilers)and when i got to shoot the boss it was a really sad moment because now she was a good person even though she turned to the russians and i dinínt want to press the fire botton because i wanted her to live now that was sad(spoilers end)I think that sadness and all those feeling moments are a part of the MGS series
Unlike me? Just because I don't sob like a little girl everytime someone is clearly trying to toy with my emotions does not mean I don't care about these characters emotionally. I said I don't like the way Kojima manipulates the player to feel sorry for his characters in the most condescending of ways. All Kojima does is stage soap operas. I'm not saying that emotional layer shouldn't be there, but if it is going to be there, it needs to stop pandering to the audience for a tear.
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Post by Snake700 »

Missing wrote:
Snake700 wrote:Unlike you some people like to feel sorry for characters like me like in MGS3 i almost cryed at both the ending and(spoilers)and when i got to shoot the boss it was a really sad moment because now she was a good person even though she turned to the russians and i dinínt want to press the fire botton because i wanted her to live now that was sad(spoilers end)I think that sadness and all those feeling moments are a part of the MGS series
Unlike me? Just because I don't sob like a little girl everytime someone is clearly trying to toy with my emotions does not mean I don't care about these characters emotionally. I said I don't like the way Kojima manipulates the player to feel sorry for his characters in the most condescending of ways. All Kojima does is stage soap operas. I'm not saying that emotional layer shouldn't be there, but if it is going to be there, it needs to stop pandering to the audience for a tear.
Ok sorry i said that but let´s make one thing clear i have never sobed over a game but MGS3 was almost making me do that
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Post by Missing »

Fair enough. I have plenty of love to give Kojima as a story-teller, but it just isn't for the melodrama. I love him for his over-the-top characters and twisted storylines.
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Post by Snake700 »

How do you think he would be as a movie drictor?
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Post by Rick Deckard »

Tao wrote:
Rick Deckard wrote: That article's really just a response to those people who didn't like MGS2 because it was too ridiculous, though, isn't it? A lot of people don't rate it highly because it wasn't particularly well-written or interesting.
Well, yeah, but the two tend in this case tend to go hand in hand at times, don't they?
Well, I mean in terms of dialogue, characters and plot... although I suppose those three do too... Anyway, yes, at times they do, but the non-ridiculous stuff is arguably not very good either... I don't know what I'm talking about to be honest.

It has to be said though that the drama-ery stuff in MGS3 was awfully contrived and tedious and ineffective (for most people, I should hope).
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Post by OtakupunkX »

Not to steal ideas from the Tim Rogers article on MGS2 at insertcredit.com or anything (I strongly agree with that article), but when somebody tells me that MGS is overrated I tell them that the game is like one of those dreams that makes total sense while you're in the dream but when you're not in the dream you're like "What was that about?". They usually still don't get it though. You really can't expect people to understand stuff like that unless it's already clicked with them, if they think MGS is overrated nothing will change their mind unless they're one of those guys who like to judge games based off of the opinions of others or they've never played the game before and are messing with you or something.
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Post by Missing »

Snake700 wrote:How do you think he would be as a movie drictor?
His forte is games. None of the stories he creates would really be the same if they were just movies. I personally don't think he'd be cut out for it. The nice thing about being a game director is you're intended to hold the player's attention for as long as possible, while film directors really try and make their films as concise as they can. I don't know that Kojima would be able to make a concise film on anything. Plus, there are things you can show in games that you couldn't show as easily -- or at all -- on film. But if Kojima were to make a movie, he'd probably end up doing a Michael Cimino/Heaven's Gate fiasco.
OtakupunkX wrote:Not to steal ideas from the Tim Rogers article on MGS2 at insertcredit.com or anything (I strongly agree with that article), but when somebody tells me that MGS is overrated I tell them that the game is like one of those dreams that makes total sense while you're in the dream but when you're not in the dream you're like "What was that about?". They usually still don't get it though. You really can't expect people to understand stuff like that unless it's already clicked with them, if they think MGS is overrated nothing will change their mind unless they're one of those guys who like to judge games based off of the opinions of others or they've never played the game before and are messing with you or something.
Sorry, but that made no sense to me whatsoever. I think if people believe something is overrated, it's probably because they didn't give it a fair enough chance to grow on them. They listen to the hype and let their expectations grow wildly. Then by the time they play the game, they're bound to be let down, because no matter how fantastic it may be, it can never live up to the high expectations they invisioned. At least the first time around. I know it's been that way for me the first time I see films that are heralded as "masterpieces". Usually when I give the film a second chance, I can appreciate it more for what it is -- since I know what to expect from it -- rather than what my imagination made me believe it might be. That's why I think to get a full opinion of something, you need to judge on more than just first impressions.
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Post by OtakupunkX »

From personal experience, Metal Gear is just something that clicks with you. I've known people that have played through them multiple times and still hated the story. Then again though, being in high school I deal with a lot of stupid people who don't know what they're talking about most of the time, so I haven't had much real world experience with these kinds of things.
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Post by Missing »

Yeah, but that's not limited to Metal Gear. It's like that with everything. You like some things, and other things you don't like. That's the way life is.
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Post by OtakupunkX »

True.
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Post by Ninja Kurosai »

Rick Deckard wrote:Scenes like that in MGS3 really struck me as deperately trying to envoke those sort of emotions in the player but failing miserably because of its story and characters being so appallingly written. Same thing happened with Otacon & Emma and Raiden & Rose in MGS2 - I think the only MGS game that was successful in making you genuinely care about the characters was the first one, because they were well-written and it felt natural.
Exactly. And I feel the same about MG2 becuase of its natural 80's Action Film atmosphere.
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Post by Missing »

MGS1 was just an amazing game. There's no other way to put it. I've said numerous times that the sequels have surpassed it technically, but like most sequels, they just don't outdo the original. MGS1 is a complete package.
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Kojima games owned: METALGEAR SERIES
MetalGear (MSX2) [European]
MetalGear (NES) [European]
MetalGear (Famicom) [Japanese]
MetalGear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2) [Japanese]
Snake's Revenge (NES) [European]
MetalGear Solid (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Premium Pack (PlayStation) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Integral (PlayStation) [Japanese]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear: Ghost Babel (Gameboy Color) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Sons Of Liberty (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance + The Document of MGS2 (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (Xbox) [European]
MetalGear Solid 2: Substance (PC) [European]
MetalGear AC!D (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Premium Pack (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear AC!D2 (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [Japanese]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - Promo copy (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid 3: Subsistence - 1st Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Digital Graphic Novel (PSP) [European]
MetalGear Solid: Portable Ops (PSP) [American]
MetalGear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Limited Edition (+ Bonus Disc, Soundtrack and 6" Old Snake Action Figure) [European]

SNATCHER SERIES
Snatcher (Mega CD) [European]
Snatcher (Saturn) [Japanese]

POLICENAUTS SERIES
Policenauts Pilot Disk (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (3DO) [Japanese]
Policenauts (PlayStation) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]
Policenauts (Saturn) [Japanese]

ZONE OF THE ENDERS SERIES
Zone Of the Enders (PlayStation 2) [European]
Zone Of the Enders: The Second Runner - Special Edition (PlayStation 2) [European]

BOKTAI SERIES
boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand! (Gameboy Advance) [European]
boktai 2: Solar Boy Django (Gameboy Advance) [European]

OTHER SERIES
Penguin Adventure (MSX) [European]
Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (DS) [Japanese]

KOJIMA-RELATED GAMES
Konami Krazy Racers (Gameboy Advance) [European]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) [American]
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Post by 87th »

MetalGear was at its purest without the Solid suffix. It was an action game with slow gameplay and limited ammunition, which rewarded you for using stealth. Many cinematic references and plot twists were used throughout. The is the pure form of MetalGear, and it remains superb. Everything afterwards has been either an experimentation, or an attempt to keep the series fresh and exciting, and with the Solid series, this has worked. MetalGear exists as a way of one of Videogaming's greatest contributors showcasing his abilities, and it really pushes the medium forward by doing so. Though many original games push further at innovation and storytelling (see killer7), none remain as accessable and exciting as MetalGear.
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Post by Missing »

Heh.... Killer7? That's up for debate. But I think the Metal Gear series really reached its peak with MGS1. It's so much more than just a 3D version of MG2. It was a complete evolution of the action genre -- much like how Resident Evil 4 is today. All action games seem to copy it nowadays. That alone speaks of its influence on games. But the fact that it's better than most of its modern day imitators? That just shows how far ahead of its time it was in 1998 and still is to this day.
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Post by fogleus »

i think its the inability to perform various abilities that brought a higher dificulty to the game
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