There's an interview with Kojima in the Japanese strategy guide for MGS Integral. In it he talks about the translation and Mei Ling's proverbs, among many other things (for instance they first joked about doing 3000 VR missions). I'd like to get the whole thing translated some day, but as it's at the bottom of the priority list right now, here's an excerpt:
Linguistically speaking, did any aspects of translating the game give you problems?
K: When you translate a game from Japanese into other languages, you first translate it into English, then translate that version into the other languages. We ended up doing German, Italian, French and Spanish language versions of the game, and had them checked by native speakers of each language. If we were to sit there and test them ourselves, we wouldn't know what the characters were saying. (laughs) We'd know they were speaking German or whatever, but nothing else. (laughs) So we sent the different versions to Konami Europe, and they had their staff and also magazine writers check them for us.
Did you have trouble translating Mei Ling's proverbs? That seems like it would be a difficult area.
K: Yeah, I'm sorry about that. (laughs) Most of them are different. (laughs) In the Japanese version, she tells Snake the proverb then explains it in Japanese, but in the English version she would say, "This is what they say in China - blah blah blah," and then when Snake asks, "What does that mean?" she would end up saying it again in English if we did a direct translation. That was a difficult area to deal with, so we kept the ones we could keep and changed the rest. And then the English version is the basis for all the European versions, so the same thing happened with them. It was a little disappointing they didn't make it in. (smiles)
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I should maybe elaborate on how the Japanese version works. Mei Ling technically still explains them in Japanese, but in a classical style that isn't used in modern conversation or writing, so some of them can be a little unclear without any explanation. So then after she says the proverb, she explains the meaning in normal Japanese.
Mei Ling's proverbs and MGS1's translation
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very interesting. I recall that Kojima was specifically not happy about this, and that these had to do with the retranslation in Twin Snakes (Didn't play that much of that). Do you know if they changed this bit there?
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Well the changing of the proverbs was a decision he was a part of. They remain unchanged in TTS (meaning they're the same as the English MGS1).
As for the other retranslated parts of the game, I don't know what was going on there. There hasn't been much said about it, except for the belief that Kojima doesn't like his words changed too much. However, this mindset always leads to a poorer translation - I think as long as the idea behind the words remains the same, you're not only honoring the original writer's intention, but even doing them a service by making it sound more natural. I think a good example of what happens when you choose not to follow this path is their translation of MG2:SS.
As for the other retranslated parts of the game, I don't know what was going on there. There hasn't been much said about it, except for the belief that Kojima doesn't like his words changed too much. However, this mindset always leads to a poorer translation - I think as long as the idea behind the words remains the same, you're not only honoring the original writer's intention, but even doing them a service by making it sound more natural. I think a good example of what happens when you choose not to follow this path is their translation of MG2:SS.
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Quoted for truth.Osiris wrote:I think as long as the idea behind the words remains the same, you're not only honoring the original writer's intention, but even doing them a service by making it sound more natural. I think a good example of what happens when you choose not to follow this path is their translation of MG2:SS.
Do you mean they "screwed up" (once again) with MG2:SS translation ? In what way ?
It just sounded half-baked to me. Like if you compare MGS1's to MG2's, you'll notice a big difference. The MGS games rewrote lines while keeping the meaning, while MG2 stayed with a more literal translation while keeping the meaning.
I pointed one of the two straight mistakes before (not changing whale meat to buffalo meat). The other was when Black Ninja dies, he says, "I'll tell you where Dr. Marv is," but he actual says, "I'll tell you where the doctor is." It's foreshadowing Marv not being there. The word "Marv" isn't in the original line. It's things like that. They don't seem to think things through. There could be more but I haven't compared them line for line all the way through.
I pointed one of the two straight mistakes before (not changing whale meat to buffalo meat). The other was when Black Ninja dies, he says, "I'll tell you where Dr. Marv is," but he actual says, "I'll tell you where the doctor is." It's foreshadowing Marv not being there. The word "Marv" isn't in the original line. It's things like that. They don't seem to think things through. There could be more but I haven't compared them line for line all the way through.
I agree with you that as long as a translator remains faithful to the creator's original intent, that's all one should expect from a good translation. But honestly, harping over a few alterations in a character's speech is a little obsessive (even if you're correct in your assumption that foreshadowing may have been lost as a result). So they didn't say 'Dr. Marv' in the original script? I think we should just be grateful for getting a reasonably versed English translation altogether.
My point with the Dr. Marv line is they were wrong. Why did they feel the need to add the Marv bit when it wasn't there in the first place, and especially when you take a quick glance at the script ahead, you can see who appears in the next scene? Call me obsessive if you want, but I guess I just care more than they did.
My point is, you can't always have your cake and eat it too. It may not be the most literal translation that could have been done, but it's still done reasonably well. I don't think most people playing an 8-bit game, no matter how story intensive it may be, are really giving much consideration to foreshadowing. As long as the translation allows them to follow what's going on, that should be good enough.
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Missing, that is quote true. But I believe that the point goes in other direction. Since most people just play it that way, they evenassume all the games are done in such fashion, and that they never raise from a certain level of sofistication. I am talking about how they've evolved, and not just this particular 8-bit caser. When you speak the language in which the stuff is made, and start noticing differences (I am talking about other cases as well, this one is just an example) you start realizing that original intentions or attention to detail was higher. Being a native Spanish speaker I know that this is true in 95% of the cases. It is very rare a case when the translated version had more detail (and being it substantial detail) than the original.
Tha's why Osiris points out this differences, since most of us don't speak japanese, or don't know it to a deep level, we cannot notice these original intentyions and details that, for a fan, might be important.
I am not saying that your point is irrelevant, but I am saying that for fans, it might be a very important point in some areas. You want stuff as pure as it can be. And the point is not to say "they did this wrong" but maybe it is to say "it can be done better and this is the path".
Tha's why Osiris points out this differences, since most of us don't speak japanese, or don't know it to a deep level, we cannot notice these original intentyions and details that, for a fan, might be important.
I am not saying that your point is irrelevant, but I am saying that for fans, it might be a very important point in some areas. You want stuff as pure as it can be. And the point is not to say "they did this wrong" but maybe it is to say "it can be done better and this is the path".
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Quoted for truth!Snatcher wrote:You want stuff as pure as it can be. And the point is not to say "they did this wrong" but maybe it is to say "it can be done better and this is the path".
Of course, video game localizations have come a long way since the NES days, when we had garbage like "the truck have started to move" or "you now process Dracula's rib". Even the games that were "perfectly translated" back in the S/NES days according to some weren't even (technically) translated at all. It's just that the localization simply took alot of liberties with the story to make seem as natural.
That's rarely a case nowadays, but even though, the translators tend to be sloppy now and then.