Just realized today...if the navigators periodically send data back to HQ, why did Harry have to bother extracting the image from Little Jean's memory, and the subsequent search for Queen's Hospital? PLOT HOLE!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:43 pm
by Artemio
Indeed, there are several plot holes in the original game, mainly small or middle sized ones to advance the plot. There is another topic around regarding the big ones (the ending). But I would hardly say this is "major".
Of course several things can be discussed about them. For instance, the nature of such periodical transmissions is never defined clearly. It could be argued that it is just a text or audio report, or that it is a full video report. And also, you don't know if those were recorded.
Besides, this would bring an even bigger issue. How did Jean Jack manage to keep all those private investigations a secret? And you could go on and on theorising and arguing the point, when in the game it is never touched.
But anyway, what is your point?
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:32 pm
by Reborn from the Ashes
Spoiler:
All the Navigator's transmissions go back to the Chief as well. In Outer Heaven after Gillian's translated the patient record, he immediately tells Metal to stop all transmissions to HQ.
As the Chief is out preparing for the Kyoto Summit when Gillian returns to HQ, Gillian never "talks" to him again, so we never know if the Chief had noticed that Metal had stopped his transmissions, if you understand what I mean. Metal would have been the first to mention if the Chief would have noticed something was wrong if he stopped the transmissions.
Remembering that the Chief also recieves information from all over the world, there's four different answers:
1) The Transmissions are audio, meaning Little John couldn't have made one without Jean Jack.
2) Little John just didn't transmit that information. (It's never mentioned how frequently the navigator makes the transmission.)
3) The Chief did receive a transmission about the location, but had too much other data to deal with that trasmission (extremely unlikely, but I thought I'd mention it.)
4) The Chief did know, and just didn't tell Gillian. After all, the real Chief is there...
This does also raise the issue though, if Gibson knew about the hospital being a Snatcher facility (which must mean he went into the basement), did he know about the Chief? It would answer the question about how Gibson knew Freddy was a Snatcher, but would leave the question about why he never did anything about the Chief.
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:37 pm
by Modnar
When exactly, did Jean start his research, did he do it when the real chief was there or was it when the snatcher replacement?
I found something too...
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:45 pm
by Arjak
I found a plot hole. Jaime tells you about there being a basement at Queens Hospital even if you never tell her to look the hospital up!
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:47 pm
by Modnar
Yes he does, doesnt he..... gillian asks for her help after finding out the information...
I'm always misunderstood...
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:59 pm
by Arjak
Only when you go to Oleen is it neccessary to call her; I think. But if you forget to call her and tell her to look up QUEENS hospital, she calls you about the basement anyway.
Re: I found something too...
Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:09 am
by Artemio
Arjak wrote:I found a plot hole. Jaime tells you about there being a basement at Queens Hospital even if you never tell her to look the hospital up!
That would rather be a scripting problem (and I mean scripting in terms of computer programming). But it is a funny point "".
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:55 am
by Mr. Seed
I've always wondered about the link between the telephone number on the bottle of Napoleon that Harry is drinking and the odd coinsidence that this random number happends to be Gibsons old informant - also neither Gillain or Napoleon question this tenious link... why on earth would Napoleons number be on the bottle in the first place (unless he manufactures it or advertises his questionable services), let alone the number link to Gibsons informant AND, what would drive Gillain to calling it anyway? -
All quite odd I think. It's funny how I didnt think about it until after I'd completed the game many many years ago. I suppose somewhere along the line you've all had this discussion anyway, I wonder if I'm just missing something.
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:01 pm
by Reborn from the Ashes
Spoiler:
I'd assume that Napolean advertises. I noticed that Metal says the Napolean's number is written on the label rather than printed. Perhaps Gibson gave the bottle to him? (No evidence of this in the game, but again, it was just a thought that occured to me.) I wouldn't have thought Napolean would have wanted his number where people could easily find it, given his fear of the Snatchers finding him.
*Edit: I looked at the script dump, and Harry actually says he took the bottle from Gibson's desk, so it looks like Gibson wrote the number on the bottle.*
I've wondered for a while why Gibson didn't tell anyone about his discoveries, Mika says that Gibson never said anything unless he was absolutely sure of himself, but obviously, he was sure of his facts. I mentioned about the possiblity before of Gibson knowing/suspecting the Chief, but if that were the case, why didn't Gibson try to do something about it? Since a month has passed since Cunningham was Snatched, I would have though Gibson found the hospital after the Chief's death.
Also, what exactly happened between Random and Gibson? We know that Gibson met Random; he warns Gillian on the P.C. to watch out for Random, and we know that Random stole some information from Gibson, but we don't know anything else, and again, nobody in HQ seems to know that Gibson and Random seem to have either met, or at least talked.
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:24 pm
by 8bitsonic
No offense RFTA, but why is every post you make obscured by a frickin' spoiler button? God damn it...sorry...but I can't stands no more!!
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:15 pm
by Reborn from the Ashes
I don't put all my posts in spoiler tags, just the ones where I talk about the storyline in Snatcher, (which I admit, is most of them) I know it's a little pointless, as we've all played through Snatcher, but it's just a habit I have from posting from other forums. Sorry for being annoying.
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:49 am
by Artemio
Reborn from the Ashes wrote: Sorry for being annoying.
Not annoying at all, I believe it is the right thing to do.
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:03 am
by Junker_05
Yeah, it's not annoying... however, I do regret clicking the spoiler buttons (no offence) as I haven't finished the game yet... Um, what am I doing here again?
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:59 am
by HorseFactory
A few minor plot holes and such have occured to me too...
When Gillian meets Harry, he has the 'hmm, I get the impression I know this guy too' dialogue, yet not with Random. It's unfair nitpicking I know, but it might have been a nice hint to drop in.
Same with the scene where chin shu oh is rambling about the Snatchers plans - didn't they twig they worship a portrait of one of the guys they're about to kill?
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:20 pm
by Artemio
HorseFactory wrote:A few minor plot holes and such have occured to me too...
When Gillian meets Harry, he has the 'hmm, I get the impression I know this guy too' dialogue, yet not with Random. It's unfair nitpicking I know, but it might have been a nice hint to drop in.
Same with the scene where chin shu oh is rambling about the Snatchers plans - didn't they twig they worship a portrait of one of the guys they're about to kill?
I do agree on the first one.. though it might be giving too much away.. and since he doesn't remember a thing with Jamie.. well, it might be a deeper impression the one of his son. Anyway, we know it was made that way for dramatic/story purposes.
About the second one, They already knew who Random was and he was one of the targets anyway.... That is for sure.
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:41 pm
by HorseFactory
Snatcher wrote:
About the second one, They already knew who Random was and he was one of the targets anyway.... That is for sure.
hmm, i forgot about that
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:01 pm
by Dave
Maybe Jean Jack had cut off transmissions with the Chief because he had found out about him and the Chief wanted Little John's memory to see how much Jean had found out. The Chief does say that "I've studied the data transmitted by Metal Gear" he gives no indication that he has any contact with Jean Jack recently, other than his transmission from the abandoned warehouse.